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MDAC First Listen (part 00111000)

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Hi all, I paid into this exciting adventure, £400 invested. Had at that time thought I would get a swap in board to a near state of art DAC for my MDAC, then as the twists and turns followed, got even more excited about the FDAC concept, together with ADC and DSP facilities.

Now, I have to admit I have not followed the most recent changes (its hard to keep up), although I have understood that John is now nearing a MDAC board, and back plate swap out (close in mainly ways to the original thinking), with a front screen likely to be available before an option of retaining the front panel of the MDAC. I have not understood the Streamer option (other than the recent comment from John about needing it if you want the new front panel). I have understood the FDAC is a way a way. Nor have I understood the Detox and whether I would
a. benefit from it
b. be eligible to buy it?

So a little confused is probably where I am. I am not too concerned/upset about the delays, although I understand why some might be.

I am seriously considering 'jumping ship' and trying a Devialet D200. Not because of any 'problem' with where this programme is, more an itch to change my rig and my lack of clarity as what is coming in the next, lets say 6 months.

I have a large collection of FLAC on a windows10 server, I manage this with LMS and stream to a variety of Squeezebox devices (I really like the old Squeezebox ecosystem, using iplayer for BBC radio and smart track selection via musicIP/SugarCube, so unless there is a serious alternative to this, I plan to retain this). In my main listening room, I actually use a Joggler (Atom based Linux touch device originally conceived by O2!) running Squeezplay, connects and is bit perfect up to 24/96 via USB to MDAC. I have a Michell GyroDec, with a Jez Arkless Phono amp into either 300B SETs and/or ATC SIA2-150 amp (depending on my mood ;)) into Impulse H2's.

So if I am to 'hang in there' what I would really like is a swap out to the MDAC with ability to handle phono (directly or via Jez's unit) together with a way of playing and controlling LMS. So that may be the CPU/Streamer option running Squeezeplay? Will this unit support some form of analogue phono input, if so what is this? ADC? and would my about setup benefit from the Detox, if I am allowed to buy?

Sorry for all the questions, but over the years I think I have got more confused ;)

Finally any approximate idea of what all this will cost over the initial development support contributions.
 
Simplest solution....get everything...get DVLA-D200 now and wait for the rest. Then sell on what you don't like.
 
David the streamer will support squeezelite and will be seen like a squeezebox.
This means that you can just plug the DAC with streamer into your existing LMS ecosystem.
 
Hi all, I paid into this exciting adventure, £400 invested. Had at that time thought I would get a swap in board to a near state of art DAC for my MDAC, then as the twists and turns followed, got even more excited about the FDAC concept, together with ADC and DSP facilities.

Now, I have to admit I have not followed the most recent changes (its hard to keep up), although I have understood that John is now nearing a MDAC board, and back plate swap out (close in mainly ways to the original thinking), with a front screen likely to be available before an option of retaining the front panel of the MDAC. I have not understood the Streamer option (other than the recent comment from John about needing it if you want the new front panel). I have understood the FDAC is a way a way. Nor have I understood the Detox and whether I would:-

a. benefit from it

If you plan to use the MDAC2/FDAC with an external USB device (such as streaming audio via a PC) then yes the Detox is beneficial - but if your just planing to use the internal streamer, then no need for the Detox.

b. be eligible to buy it?

Yes your still welcome to join the project :)

I have a large collection of FLAC on a windows10 server, I manage this with LMS and stream to a variety of Squeezebox devices (I really like the old Squeezebox ecosystem, using iplayer for BBC radio and smart track selection via musicIP/SugarCube, so unless there is a serious alternative to this, I plan to retain this). In my main listening room, I actually use a Joggler (Atom based Linux touch device originally conceived by O2!) running Squeezplay, connects and is bit perfect up to 24/96 via USB to MDAC.

Squeezelite can be installed on the internal streamer - I dont have any idea about squeezelite but many people run it on RPi hardware so I dont see an issue to getting it working on the MDAC2's CM3 based hardware - I hope we will be able to ship the unit with squeezelite pre-installed upon request.

The Streamer hardware is optimised for the MDAC2 so it should offer a sonic improvement over your current setup.

I have a Michell GyroDec, with a Jez Arkless Phono amp into either 300B SETs and/or ATC SIA2-150 amp (depending on my mood ;)) into Impulse H2's.

So if I am to 'hang in there' what I would really like is a swap out to the MDAC with ability to handle phono (directly or via Jez's unit) together with a way of playing and controlling LMS. So that may be the CPU/Streamer option running Squeezeplay? Will this unit support some form of analogue phono input, if so what is this? ADC? and would my about setup benefit from the Detox, if I am allowed to buy?

Yes the MDAC2 will be offered with an ADC option but you will still need your external Phono Stage.

The Volumio software is able to "Record / Capture" from the ADC and stream over the network ror save directly onto a NAS Drive / USB flash drive etc. I'm not sure what the squeezelite environment can support as a "recording device".

The ADC supports DSD256 recording or even 768KHz PCM so I "hope" we will not loose to much "archiving" your Vinyl with the MDAC2.

Finally any approximate idea of what all this will cost over the initial development support contributions.

Well a fully loaded MDAC2 with the entry level dual ESSPro DAC PCB, Dual ADC and internal Streamer, External HQ PSU with front panel update is going to be around GBP1000 ontop of the development fees. This is subject to final costings but thats my "Target" limit - its a LOT of DAC :)
 
For those who are interested in occasional CD play back or ripping to NAS / USB Flash drive on the MDAC2+ with Streamer I recommand a slot drive like this:-

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=161778702969

Which can be plugged into one of the MDAC2+ USB ports and controlled via the Volumio UI.

Data is bit accurate & Clock-locked to the System audio clock.

A planned MDAC2 DAC board option with the fully discrete DAC disables the SPDIF inputs so such a USB drive allows a CD drive to be still used with these units.
 
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For those who are interested in occasional CD play back or ripping to NAS / USB Flash drive on the MDAC2+ with Streamer I recommand a slot drive like this:-

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=161778702969

Which can be plugged into one of the MDAC2+ USB ports and controlled via the Volumio UI.

I have one of those and have found it to be "interesting" when connected to an RPI running kodi. I don't know if it's inherent to the RPI (I think it is) or an artefact of kodi.

Because there's no physical eject button on the drive, if the OS "decides" there's no disk in the drive, then you can't eject it in software. This can be the case if restarting the RPI with a disk already inserted and especially if there's not enough current provided by the USB port. Once the OS has decided there's no disk, then the only way to eject has been to connect the drive to a Windows PC and erect from there.

Plugged into a standard rpi3, I've ended up replacing one of those with a drive with an eject button; and using a USB doubling cable which lets me take data from 1 usb port, but power from 2 USB ports
 
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I have one of those and have found it to be "interesting" when connected to an RPI running kodi. I don't know if it's inherent to the RPI (I think it is) or an artefact of kodi.

Because there's no physical eject button on the drive, if the OS "decides" there's no disk in the drive, then you can't eject it in software. This can be the case if restarting the RPI with a disk already inserted and especially if there's not enough current provided by the USB port. Once the OS has decided there's no disk, then the only way to eject has been to connect the drive to a Windows PC and erect from there.

Plugged into a standard rpi3, I've ended up replacing one of those with a drive with an eject button; and using a USB doubling cable which lets me take data from 1 usb port, but power from 2 USB ports

Chris,

Yes the USB ports on the Pi are very sensitive to load current - it even has an issue "starting" the Pro-Ject DAC's we designed,

We have our own hardware for our streamer solution, so while I say RPi compatible its only in the sense of the same CPU & GPIO port arrangement - although a couple of GPIO's are reassigned to free up there Primary I/O tasks (such as a full RGB LCD interface).

While I'm sure we will discover our own "personality" issues with our streamer module design, our USB ports can provide 1.5A shared between all 3 external ports -which should be plenty to power an external CD slot loader.

We will have a dedicated Eject Icon for the loader when in use on the Volumio UI (on the custom front panel).
 
Well a fully loaded MDAC2 with the entry level dual ESSPro DAC PCB, Dual ADC and internal Streamer, External HQ PSU with front panel update is going to be around GBP1000 ontop of the development fees. This is subject to final costings but thats my "Target" limit - its a LOT of DAC :)

Hi John

Could you please illustrate/break down where the £1000 on top comes from now, I thought it was £350-400 on top for the board etc? (Streamer was £180-250 granted)

Thanks
 
Hi John

Could you please illustrate/break down where the £1000 on top comes from now, I thought it was £350-400 on top for the board etc? (Streamer was £180-250 granted)

Thanks

Its £350-£400 for mainboard with dual ESS DAC's (+ £400 development fee)

HQ PSU £200 - £250

Streamer £180 - £250

ADC £150 - £250

MDAC2+ Front panel £200 (NRE £100, Panel ~£100 to £120)

There's a significant range in the above, the lowest is £1080 for the fully loaded MDAC2, but this includes the Streamer, ADC and front panel update options (note this does not including the initial £400 development fee).

A "basic" MDAC2 with dual ESS Pro DAC's (sans Streamer, ADC & updated Front Panel) is £950 but this does include the initial development fee.

The cost of the front panel upgrade will come down if the NRE cost of ~£3000 can be spread across more then 30 units.

All costs do not including shipping etc.

On the Basic MDAC2 the cost of the external HQ PSU needs to be factored (this adds £200 - £250 to the original planned costs).
 
For those who are interested in occasional CD play back or ripping to NAS / USB Flash drive on the MDAC2+ with Streamer I recommand a slot drive like this:-

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=161778702969

Which can be plugged into one of the MDAC2+ USB ports and controlled via the Volumio UI.

Data is bit accurate & Clock-locked to the System audio clock.

A planned MDAC2 DAC board option with the fully discrete DAC disables the SPDIF inputs so such a USB drive allows a CD drive to be still used with these units.

HI John, must it be this model or any USB DVD drive will work with the data been bit accurate & clock locked to the system audio clock?
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
I'm not sure what the squeezelite environment can support as a "recording device".
I think there is a misunderstanding here squeezelite is not an environment it is just a lightweight streaming client like RoonBridge that only does one thing receives the audio stream from a server LMS / RoonCore and sends it to ALSA which is the sound card driver on Linux.

The Volumio distribution has its own music server and music player mpd (music playing deamon) so those that don't have streaming server can use this by just pointing to some music on a connected hard drive or on their network. Out of the box functionality :)

But those of us that prefer to use synchronised multi room streaming and already have LMS or RoonCore installed on a server can use Squeezelite or RoonBridge instead. The important point is that we will still use the Volumio distribution but need Squeezelite or RoonBridge clients install in the Volumio environment and use them when streaming instead. So we will basically ignore Volumios server/library functionality.

So to clarify we will still have volumio and can use the functionality for recording and the UI etc.
So I think that the volumio Guys should provide an option in there setting enable/install squeezelite and or RoonBridge.

All streaming clients/mpd play nicely and can actually be running on the same time because they release ALSA when they are not playing.

Hope this explanation was understandable.
 
Its £350-£400 for mainboard with dual ESS DAC's (+ £400 development fee)

HQ PSU £200 - £250

Streamer £180 - £250

ADC £150 - £250

MDAC2+ Front panel £200 (NRE £100, Panel ~£100 to £120)

There's a significant range in the above, the lowest is £1080 for the fully loaded MDAC2, but this includes the Streamer, ADC and front panel update options (note this does not including the initial £400 development fee).

A "basic" MDAC2 with dual ESS Pro DAC's (sans Streamer, ADC & updated Front Panel) is £950 but this does include the initial development fee.

The cost of the front panel upgrade will come down if the NRE cost of ~£3000 can be spread across more then 30 units.

All costs do not including shipping etc.

On the Basic MDAC2 the cost of the external HQ PSU needs to be factored (this adds £200 - £250 to the original planned costs).

John,

Does the MDAC2 main board include an analogue preamp or only digital preamp ?;
 
Its £350-£400 for mainboard with dual ESS DAC's (+ £400 development fee)

HQ PSU £200 - £250

Streamer £180 - £250

ADC £150 - £250

MDAC2+ Front panel £200 (NRE £100, Panel ~£100 to £120)

There's a significant range in the above, the lowest is £1080 for the fully loaded MDAC2, but this includes the Streamer, ADC and front panel update options (note this does not including the initial £400 development fee).

A "basic" MDAC2 with dual ESS Pro DAC's (sans Streamer, ADC & updated Front Panel) is £950 but this does include the initial development fee.

The cost of the front panel upgrade will come down if the NRE cost of ~£3000 can be spread across more then 30 units.

All costs do not including shipping etc.

On the Basic MDAC2 the cost of the external HQ PSU needs to be factored (this adds £200 - £250 to the original planned costs).


My understanding was that the original MDAC power supply was deemed to be OK and that only after some test/trials had been done to show that there was a significant improvement in SQ that any replacement would be recommended?

Since the MDAC2 still awaits manufacture is it currently known that an alternative external PS is/will be required and that significant SQ will be achieved as a result?
 
<snip>
But those of us that prefer to use synchronised multi room streaming and already have LMS or RoonCore installed on a server can use Squeezelite or RoonBridge instead. The important point is that we will still use the Volumio distribution but need Squeezelite or RoonBridge clients install in the Volumio environment and use them when streaming instead. So we will basically ignore Volumios server/library functionality.
<snip>
Hope this explanation was understandable.

As it happens my Squeezbox died in the heat here (over 40C last weekend), so have had to get squeezelite working for the first time, it works well. I'm really glad I've already signed up for the streamer, and look forward to seeing how it compares to going from my Mac mini.
 
My understanding was that the original MDAC power supply was deemed to be OK and that only after some test/trials had been done to show that there was a significant improvement in SQ that any replacement would be recommended?

Certainly not my understanding- the original "PS" is just a transformer, feeding AC only to the internal dc power supply. This would be of no use to the new design. Given the enormous improvements to the original MDAC SQ reported by many people when a good (5-rail) external LPS is used, going to anything less for the MDAC2 would be a disaster.
 
would a MCRU LDA linear power supply work with the MDAC2, or is the new PSU a whole different topology/connector?

John, if I want to include streamer/ADC options for MDAC2, is my existing £400 contribution sufficient or am I in need of additional payments? Thanks
 
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