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MDAC First Listen (part 00101000)

Discussion in 'audio' started by fusion5, Jul 26, 2015.

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  1. JohanH

    JohanH pfm Member

    Is this John implicitly saying only FWC DAC will be available (no more PCB for MDAC)?
  2. JohnW

    JohnW pfm member


    Thank you - its at least a "Guiding light" :) before this basic Poll I had no idea about the split... its about 85% for the FWC.

    Still, 15% against the FWC is surprising....
  3. JohanH

    JohanH pfm Member

    Probably too soon to say.
    Might even be more once total costs / cost breakdown is published
  4. JohnW

    JohnW pfm member

    That's fair, then I'm sure we can find a solution on a case by case basis, however I don't understand why you cannot sell your working MDAC which is worth more then the difference required for the FWC?
  5. JohnW

    JohnW pfm member

    Yes indeed, but I'm still hoping for a nice surprise and the cost will be less :)

    If we decide for the FWC then I can reduce the cost of the design itself:-

    1. No "MDAC" style rear panel (Extrusion tooling)

    2. Removes the need for a complicated internal heatsink design (which requires custom tooling).

    3. Eases the internal PSU design - and higher quality.

    The other factor I've yet to mention is that the main bulk capacitors on the MDAC current PSU input board are starting to bulged on many units I've seen recently :( - this board would be reused on the MDAC2 design but not needed on the FWC version.

    I'd be happy to recondition any MDAC's for future sale or for the second system at no cost if the postage cost is covered.
  6. JohnW

    JohnW pfm member

    No, not all - only that there will be a single option....
  7. mike9876

    mike9876 Well-Known Member

    Sounds like it. Up goes the cost, what some of us might not be able to afford.
  8. JohnW

    JohnW pfm member


    Sorry, maybe we crossed posted and you missed my earlier reply to your valid point. In such instances, I'm happy on a case per case basis to see what we can do :)

    I could recap your unit, add small tweeks to improve SQ and hopefully recoup the FWC cost by then selling the MDAC on ebay????

    I understand that not everyone has a spare GBP300 laying around, I also operate on a minimal budget as I've spent the last 4 years developing the MDAC2 (Fusion Dac) so also have to be careful with funds.
  9. mike9876

    mike9876 Well-Known Member

    John how can I email you because your pm box is full.
  10. JohnW

    JohnW pfm member


    So it looks like something like this (we still have to workout the fine details before I leave HK):-

    LakeWest will become a sub-brand of miniDSP, so visiting the miniDSP website you will see the LakeWest logo on the RH corner, and our own area on the website.

    miniDSP gain our expertise in Analogue / Digital while we gain miniDSP's sales, manufacturing, shipping, support etc. AND most importantly miniDSP's portfolio and experience in DSP. I see this as win win situation for both parties, a perfect Fusion of skills and IP.

    I want to remain focused design "reference" products - not operate a company (could you imagine the results), the miniDSP team is motivated, keen, talented, well managed and above all I'm very happy to be in partnership with them.

    The LakeWest "Fusion Dac" as we are tentatively calling it will be commercially available BUT at a much increased cost - it will be sold at industry standard margins - so PFM'er will be getting a bargain :)

    PFM members did after all face the twist and turns of this project and shoulder the RISK! I'll also personally build and test each PFM unit and install the Vishay Bulk foils etc. which will not be available on the "commercial" unit.

    Personally, I'll be very sad to see the end of the project as the MDAC2 and PFM has been my life for the past 4 years :) - that said we will be releasing constant firmware / software updates for many years, but still the major part of the project will soon be completed :( / :)
  11. JohnW

    JohnW pfm member


    I just cleared a couple of spaces in my PM box, or you can Email Renata (You should have her details as should would have Emailed you directly when you sent payment).
  12. JohnW

    JohnW pfm member

  13. moosemeat

    moosemeat pfm Member

    Not really... the MDAC2 project has been a dynamic and organic process; the FWC idea stems from the VFET amp development.
  14. JohnW

    JohnW pfm member

    Also, while I could consider supporting the few VFET amplifier owners to house there MDAC2 into a FWC (with standard OLED display) I could not have contemplated 200pcs....

    The FWC Fusion DAC has only become possible with the support of the miniDSP partnership - its a better product because the the Fusion of our two companies.
  15. moosemeat

    moosemeat pfm Member

    It is unfortunate that John cannot possibly provide a solution that pleases all of the people, all of the time. This has been the case throughout the life of the project - the development has been determined by the interests of the majority.

    At this development juncture, the direction is again being determined by the majority. In this case, I think the wishes of the majority and the logical direction are aligned. Nonetheless, we need to find a way forward that treats all people as fairly as possible.
  16. moosemeat

    moosemeat pfm Member

    This is a great outcome! I think it would be a real shame to develop such a fantastic product and not make it available to the global hifi market. What's more, this way I would hope John will be suitably financially rewarded for the huge effort and undoubted stress he has gone through to deliver MDAC2. Indeed, a win win for all stakeholders.
  17. fusion5

    fusion5 on the dark side of hifi...

    Indeed! The Fusion DAC "PFM Edition" instead of the "old" MDAC2 upgrade package brings so much more to the table. Even if that means that I would have to sell of my three existing MDACs (with loss as some have pointed out). But if I change my point of view, I would be merely trading them in for a full width chassis :D

    An enhanced "PFM Edition" of a commercially available (~£3k to £5k) high end dac? Yes please! :cool:
  18. Vinz

    Vinz pfm Member

    So that would leave 2 possibilities:
    - L1 as PCB upgrade only
    - L3 + FWC

    Do I get that right?
  19. LarsS

    LarsS pfm Member


    Changing subject to a (hopefully) more positive and forward looking one.

    Can you detail the Fusion DAC (ex MDAC2) project schedule, pls include functionality where applicable:

    1. Digital PCB
    2. HQ PSU
    3. ADC
    4. FPGA
    5. Chassies including front & back panel
    6. miniDSP
    7. Software development
    8. Testing & Error fixing
    9. Production details
    10. Whatever I forgot to include ....

    A summary of the total Fusion DAC cost would also be good to have here.

    Maybe also detailing the role of the miniDSP company in the project, will they be project managing the project as of now?

  20. 44000khz

    44000khz pfm Member

    For the record I'm up for the fwc. If I can sell my original mdac and cover the cost of the case it seems reasonable for me at least. And again for the record, JW seems a most reasonable and conscientious man.

    Just a bit concerned on final costs as the company I work for has been taken over and I quite possibly face redundancy in the near future.
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