MDAC First Listen (part 00100100)

[tull_hifi]

Hi John,
Looks like i need a new cd player as my pink triangle litaural has started to die after nearly 20 years of great trouble free service. I'm on the list for m and t-dacs.
Any advice re new cd player-
Should I go for stand alone transport(optical /coaxial /balanced?). Is it worth hunting down a player with clock lock function like my old litaural?.
I see audio lab have a transport out-is it likely to be good enough for the mdac2?
Or is a any cheap cd/ dvd player with digital out good enough?
At the other end of the transport world there are the likes of the cyrus signature -any thoughts would be much appreciated,
cheers.

Personnaly, I use the Musical Fidelity M1CDT transport with the M-DAC. I think it's a good driver, maybe a bit fragile in the design of the slot-in mecanism (already need a fix for me by the after-sales service).
I can put the M-DAC on it, it's the same color (black), and nearly the same width.
I think the Rega Appolo offers solid value too. In other style you have OPPO BDP-105 which is very versatile.

Any advices on my previous question about BNC digital output ?

 

[vincey103]

tull, I've always liked rega -good build quality ,back up and British made to boot.afraid top loading mech probably won't suit my set up re shelving.
My pink cd went for one service in nearly 20 years for faulty filter led .I don't expect anything is that well screwed together nowadays even if i pay top dollar .Hence the question for John with regards to the Audiolab cd transport v cheap v top end.
If the question on BNC out is for me ,sorry can't help as I use the balanced out.I know the rca inputs are poorly attached to the chassis but again no real prob for me as I don't use them. How difficult can it be to make a connector that doesn't fall apart when you plug a lead in and out?However,I can put up with most things if it sounds great and keeps on sounding great.
cheers

 

[jadidih101]

I am sure this has been asked and answered/discussed before but I am finding conflicting answers in different places.

So, what is the general consensuses among MDAC community on what is better; a good CD transport connected to MDAC via BNC, or a good Ripped CD file (not compressed) send to MDAC from a computer via USB?

Appreciate your comments.

 

[Asphaltradler]

Abletec once visited us in China, and while there modulator has some merits (no modulator beating between channels), I don't see them as a major advanced over NCores.... and they are expensive.

There THD figures are inferiour to Ncores / UCD.

Hello John, I don't think that's still completely true for the AMS design. Here is a comparison with former ALC:

Taken from http://www.anaview.com/sites/default/files/PDS%20AMS1000-2600-C.pdf.
Here a DIY user compared own measurements of hypex nCores and AMS 1000-2600 with not too bad result: http://abload.de/image.php?img=vergleichnc400-ams100axltl.gif. Expensive? The AMS 1000 board complete with power supply registers with around 380 EUR, whereas same power rated NC400 +SMP is 2x 325 + 2x 180,- = 1010,- EUR ...

 

[dtd]

The AMS designs in some cases are multiple magnitudes worse than the NCores, going on measurements alone. I personally had a look at Anaview's own technical documents and they are similar to independent measurements (i.e. large differences in THD vs Power compared to NCores). Also I suspect the independent Ncores measurements could be better - I've certainly seen far better in some cases.

 

[iansr]

I am sure this has been asked and answered/discussed before but I am finding conflicting answers in different places.

So, what is the general consensuses among MDAC community on what is better; a good CD transport connected to MDAC via BNC, or a good Ripped CD file (not compressed) send to MDAC from a computer via USB?

Appreciate your comments.

I used to have a very good CD player, a Sugden Masterclass with a rare as hens teeth 1541Double Crown DAC chip installed. Then I bought a Modwright modded Transporter together with a NAS to store FLAC files. The Tramsporter left the CDP for dead. I now use a dedicated computer to feed my MDAC Fusion and it's even better. The best thing you can do with a CD these days is convert it into a FLAC file.

 

[adamdea]

I am sure this has been asked and answered/discussed before but I am finding conflicting answers in different places.

So, what is the general consensuses among MDAC community on what is better; a good CD transport connected to MDAC via BNC, or a good Ripped CD file (not compressed) send to MDAC from a computer via USB?

Appreciate your comments.

I don't think you will get a consensus. What exactly is a good cd transport? I know this might seem like a facetious question but honestly I'm not sure that many "transports" are particularly carefully designed as such. The Mdac has the unusual facility of allowing a clock output from the DAC to lock an incoming transport to the dac's clock. This is undoubtedly the correct engineering solution to the problem (if there is one) of sending data via s/pdif. Sadly few cd transports have the relevant input (go figure). I went to the trouble of getting an arcam delta 170.3 transport which does have the input. I can confirm that it sounds exactly the same to me whether clock locked or not, and the same as my modified squeezebox touch, my unmodified sbt, various cd players via s/PDIF and my cubox-I. I haven't got a usb hub to get the MDac to work with my SBTs via Usb, but my previous ps audio DAC sounded exactly the same to me via all inputs.
Even assuming that I am just deaf I can discern no consensus amongst those who think that digital transports sound different as to what is the preferred transport or mode of connection. I would however advice caution as to whether any particular cd playing device is really a truly dedicated transport

In summary don't worry

 

[ChrisPa]

1) Update the mdac2.lakewestaudio.com page with best guess dates
2) Put something in your signature on the forum that has a link to that page, e.g. "to find out how the MDAC2 project is coming along, click here"
3) Once a month, take 5 minutes to glance over the dates on the mdac2.lakewestaudio.com page, and update as necessary


I think this would make the natives happy, and reduce the number of times people have to ask about this.

Just my thoughts. Personally I am relaxed about it, but it's hard to know how the people who have made the first payment are feeling right now. It doesn't need to take a huge amount of time.

No, no, no. I want it to just magically appear when I'm not expecting it.

No dates means no disappointment.

I'm comfortable...

 

[ChrisPa]

Those anaview plots are an order of magnitude out from the nc400.

nc400 drops pretty well linearly to below 0.0003%. Distortion doesn't start making itself evident until below about 3W and 0.0007% - prior to that it's noise

What's really telling is that effectively it produces the same low distortion at 6kHz (and 10k-20kHz) as it does at all frequencies, and it produces the same low distortion into 2ohms

 

[JohnW]

I've come down with a Cold / Flu so too ill to work on the PCB design - with the fever I'll just make too many errors - this really disappoints me as I so want to see the completion of this PCB ASAP.

wju,

While I cannot concentrate on the PCB design, I've taken the opportunity to take a look at your MDAC - WOW you really did blow the unit, the problem is that the PCB has been burnt to carbon, and there is little in the way of PCB tracking remaining to replace the damaged parts.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86116171/WJU Blown.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86116171/WJU Removed.jpg

I'll try my best, I replaced the parts but little luck yet, I'm having a hard time to track down the other blown parts... Fevers not helping

 

[Reenberg]

Dear John, you know what all the female's will tell you... Stay in bed until you feel well.

Personal Im way to impatient for that, but im sure it works.
My old doctor recommended Tea with Rum ( a lot of it ). It dose's help on the illness as he said, but make it a hell of lot more fun to stay in bed.

Hope you get well fast .

 

[Reenberg]

Class D

While we are running out of ( another ) tangent here

I have just build ( ok, put together ) a classD amp with one of Pascals modules.

Damm they are good. Im quite surprised ( newer had the nCore, but almost all other modules have been though the house ( ICE, Zappulse, Hypex ect ) ) The sound quality is quite high, especially compared to the price.
I think Jeff Roland use them as wel in some of his amps.

Not as liquid, wonderfull as my mc275, but more detailed than my sirius ( pre gamuT ) d200 and old accuphase.


Theis

 

[sam_cat]

So, what is the general consensuses among MDAC community on what is better; a good CD transport connected to MDAC via BNC, or a good Ripped CD file (not compressed) send to MDAC from a computer via USB?

A good ripped CD (FLAC, level 3 compression is what I use), ripped using accurip in dbPowerAmp.. It takes as long as it needs to rip it, validates results against the results others have had.
Play it once, play it right... Then the file is as good as you are going to get.

 

[Bob L]

I used to have a very good CD player, a Sugden Masterclass with a rare as hens teeth 1541Double Crown DAC chip installed. Then I bought a Modwright modded Transporter together with a NAS to store FLAC files. The Tramsporter left the CDP for dead. I now use a dedicated computer to feed my MDAC Fusion and it's even better. The best thing you can do with a CD these days is convert it into a FLAC file.

jadidih101, I had a very similar experience to this, using a Linn Ikemi as transport into my unmodified MDAC, but the change did not come from just using a dedicated computer (Mac Mini 2009). Here the Ikemi was way out in front. What turned things around for me was putting a high quality (Paul Hynes) linear supply in place of the noisy Apple SMPS. Following on from that there are several tweaks to make still more improvements, but I don't want to hijack this thread. There is lots of information on Computer Audiophile, and some scattered through the Paul Hynes site- if you need any guidance through this, PM me.

Oh,and I'm still hoping that at some time a clock-locked SACD can restore some balance....

 

[sam_cat]

Hi John,
Looks like i need a new cd player as my pink triangle litaural has started to die after nearly 20 years of great trouble free service. I'm on the list for m and t-dacs.
Any advice re new cd player-
Should I go for stand alone transport(optical /coaxial /balanced?). Is it worth hunting down a player with clock lock function like my old litaural?.
I see audio lab have a transport out-is it likely to be good enough for the mdac2?
Or is a any cheap cd/ dvd player with digital out good enough?
At the other end of the transport world there are the likes of the cyrus signature -any thoughts would be much appreciated,
cheers.

Got a laptop?

Download DBPowerAmp, using your 30 day trial to rip a couple of cds using accurip into FLAC, connect to MDac via USB and give that a try.. Works really well, and laptops are cheaper than transports on the whole

 

[jadidih101]

I don't think you will get a consensus. What exactly is a good cd transport? I know this might seem like a facetious question but honestly I'm not sure that many "transports" are particularly carefully designed as such. The Mdac has the unusual facility of allowing a clock output from the DAC to lock an incoming transport to the dac's clock. This is undoubtedly the correct engineering solution to the problem (if there is one) of sending data via s/pdif. Sadly few cd transports have the relevant input (go figure). I went to the trouble of getting an arcam delta 170.3 transport which does have the input. I can confirm that it sounds exactly the same to me whether clock locked or not, and the same as my modified squeezebox touch, my unmodified sbt, various cd players via s/PDIF and my cubox-I. I haven't got a usb hub to get the MDac to work with my SBTs via Usb, but my previous ps audio DAC sounded exactly the same to me via all inputs.
Even assuming that I am just deaf I can discern no consensus amongst those who think that digital transports sound different as to what is the preferred transport or mode of connection. I would however advice caution as to whether any particular cd playing device is really a truly dedicated transport

In summary don't worry

Thanks for the replies.

I also have concerns about computer media players. From personal experience, I have noticed considerable/noticeable differences between different media players. My favorite is Foobar which in default mode (no gain control or EQ) does not seem to add any 'flavors' to the music file.

So here is my question, since John's aim is to have custom/advanced digital filters in MDAC2, should we, MDAC community, be looking at what we consider to be a reference media players and/or a CD transport against which these filters will be reviewed/measured/compared? After all we do have a reference amp which is John's VFET.

Just to be clear, I am looking for reference media players in terms of neutrality not enhancement. Obviously most media players offer an array of tools for customizing sound.

Foobar has my vote.

 

[Julf]

There is lots of information on Computer Audiophile

I would start by looking at how that site is financed...

 

[Julf]

So here is my question, since John's aim is to have custom/advanced digital filters in MDAC2, should we, MDAC community, be looking at what we consider to be a reference media players and/or a CD transport against which these filters will be reviewed/measured/compared?

I would love to hear John's views on audible differences caused by different bit-perfect player software...

 

[adamdea]

Thanks for the replies.

I also have concerns about computer media players. From personal experience, I have noticed considerable/noticeable differences between different media players. My favorite is Foobar which in default mode (no gain control or EQ) does not seem to add any 'flavors' to the music file.

So here is my question, since John's aim is to have custom/advanced digital filters in MDAC2, should we, MDAC community, be looking at what we consider to be a reference media players and/or a CD transport against which these filters will be reviewed/measured/compared? After all we do have a reference amp which is John's VFET.

Just to be clear, I am looking for reference media players in terms of neutrality not enhancement. Obviously most media players offer an array of tools for customizing sound.

Foobar has my vote.

I'm afraid I'm not really the right person to talk to about the sound of digital transports or media player software. I think you should chose them on the basis of features and UI.

On the subject of reference media players though, some time ago it was mooted that the M-dac 2 could have an inbuilt single board computer (like a raspberry pi) so that it could serve as an all in one digital transport- the idea was to run squeezelite (a squeezebox emulator which turns a pi or something like it into a squeezebox player) or something like it (maybe volumio, but there are several choice). That idea was shelved in favour of building a separate pod (probably to be connected by i2S) at some point in the future.

I don't know whether that will ever come to fruition, but if it ever does I guess that will be the reference.

In general though there seem to be so many different digital sources and types of player software that IMHO standardisation is hopeless. For example AFAIK Foobar won't work on a mac. There are also quite a few die hard cd transport fans.

 

[vincey103]

sam cat post 675-thanks for the suggestion
i listen to flacs from server everyday. have done for years and sounds great through asynch usb /squeeze box /mdac.i've got thousands of cds. I would like to be able to still play them .why not?