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MDAC First Listen (part 00100011)

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trevjm said:
As a non techie person can I please ask a simple question.... what benefit does clock locking bring to the system?
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Clock-Locking eliminates the effect of interface / source jitter - the DAC is operated from its local High performance clock, and this clock is sent back to the CD transport for system synchronisation.

The DAC is then indifferent to the clock Jitter of the "Data" source.
 
JohnW said:
Clock-Locking eliminates the effect of interface / source jitter - the DAC is operated from its local High performance clock, and this clock is sent back to the CD transport for system synchronisation.

The DAC is then indifferent to the clock Jitter of the "Data" source.
Click to expand...

John, if I can push this a bit further: presumably the clock-locking possibility also applies to an SACD transport/BR player, modified to put out the DSD stream as you suggested?

Does this mean that if I want the same unit to play CDs also, I will need separate outputs on the player, one for the 44.1PCM CD out and one for the DSD from SACD, each going to its own input to the M-DAC2? (I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible for someone else who might use the rig....)
 
If your player is modified with our "planned" PCB, then both DSD and PCM can be outputted via the same connection - the MDAC2 will automatically detect the Data stream format.
 
JohnW said:
If your player is modified with our "planned" PCB, then both DSD and PCM can be outputted via the same connection - the MDAC2 will automatically detect the Data stream format.
Click to expand...

Count me in for one of them, does this mean it's not worth fitting a beter clock to the player?
 
@ John,

Managed to erase my previous post. Anyway my question was if you're following the same design path as Lukasz Fikus and Aqua i.e. retrieving the digital signal prior the chips (eg Sabre) digital filters?

Ideas like this that Lukasz had long before starting his own business - - > http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/TRANSPORT/behringer/Behringer.html

/Cheers

Lars

PS: John, you're f*****g bad at planning your work, let me help you for the good of us all. I understand that you're a creative engineer, my favourite project member.

March 1'st next year I'll be retiring from my project manager position witihin IT & Banking/Finance. My first grandchild has arrived (oct 12, a girl) and I decided that she is more important then work, and she is. Having built several private and corporate netbanks for major european banks, I see that I can play a role in straighten this project for the good of all of us. My strength is in understanding creative people/engineers, structure work aso and lead them to a common goal.

Let me know if I can assist you John and all our fellow PFM'rs to agreed common goals, free of charge. DS
 
Heyyyy don't stress the man out, a lot of this is for the joy of doing it. :) I can see that John's biggest distractions are all us beavers plaguing him with questions via this thread and PM! John is too nice, which good for us socially and i for one am enjoying the banter, but it's not the best trait for hard nosed business.

All good things come to those who wait ;-)

Best regards
 
(Or maybe we should shut the thread down and John can post periodic developmental updates on that Wiki) hehe
 
LarsS said:
@ John,


PS: John, you're f*****g bad at planning your work, let me help you for the good of us all. I understand that you're a creative engineer, my favourite project member.
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I have 30+ years of experience in IT and software development, including some management, and respectfully you may be the exception, but I have never known any project manager who is any F*****g good at creative engineering.

You think we would have had Sistine Chapel if Michelangelo had a project manager.

Personally I would rather wait for John to give us what he believe is great rather than have a project manager give us something he think is good enough.

Don't get me wrong, I believe project managers are a great resource for creative people but only after the creative work is done.

John, stay the course.
 
If a Moderator could kindly remove the last 4 posts (including this one) I believe it will be better for everyone. Original post may not have been intended to offend, but easy to misconstrued and spoil the friendly nature of this thread. Thank you in advance (and this never happened) :) E L E ...EverybodyLoveEverybody
 
I don't know its a very generous offer from Lars, but only John can decide what he wants to do obviously.

The MDAC took about 3 years or was it 4? to come into reality from the first threads on the DIY forum. I think a lot of people would will help John for free (i'd still like to do the photography for example) because John is so helpful to others.

The thing i find amusing is that creative people, at least the ones that are good, are never happy with anything they do, they can always do better, or are always trying to reach for something just out of their grasp, through this work good things are created, it doesn't matter if your a musician or an electronics engineer/designer, its just the way it is!

This thread has also been a most positive and creative one right from the start, while some threads (especially when a manufacturer is involved!) can descend into petty squabbling, this thread has shied away from that and long may it continue. :)
 
JohnW said:
And why not* would you believe for one single second that the engineers in China have even the slightest clue about such matters?

* Obviously we are both not surprised in the least! but to be honest it didn't even occur to me that they might! as I know how little they understand anything beyond the most basic requirements.

Gosh I sound really REALLY nasty - but sadly the facts only speak for themselves.

We can offer a clocklock update to the transport if anyone's interest.
Click to expand...
How much does the modification cost? Does it take a lot of time? I might be interested.
 
Still stand for my previous comment, but at the very least could we please remove the Pr*fAniTies, which I sure go against Forum advice for posts...it just lowers the tone :)
 
ti33er said:
(Or maybe we should shut the thread down and John can post periodic developmental updates on that Wiki) hehe
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Hell no.

I'm fine with the project being 'badly' planned as long it gets done right eventually. I'm not sure it's in John's best interest but seeing a project struggle is quite entertaining (in a slightly sadistic way I'm afraid).
 
jadidih101 said:
You think we would have had Sistine Chapel if Michelangelo had a project manager.
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:D:D

I'm sure that if John wished to start a global empire, maximising profit and efficiency then the 1st thing he would do would be to employ a project manager.

Then MDAC2 would probably end up being an overpriced (to pay for the project manager for one) compromised box of mediocrity like so much that already exists in life.

Patience is a virtue.
 
misterdog said:
Vinz - you may wish to amend this post.
Click to expand...

Hey I don’t take these comments in any kind of bad way :)

At the end of the day I do this to myself, if I didn’t care then I'd just slap something down onto the PCB and nobody would be any the wiser (apart from myself) - but the 'problem' is that its has too be PERFECT, and nothing less will do.

Case in point my recent struggles with squeezing the ESS Analogue section PSU onto the PCB, I could have reduce the circuit s complexity and thus size, but I just could not take the risk that it would undoubtedly have a negatively impact on sound quality

I'm almost appreciative that others can see how much I struggle at times, as it means they can see the effort I’m putting into the project – worst would be for ones efforts not to be appreciated :D

Sometimes it better not to know the struggles that lie ahead and go into a design ‘blind’.

If I think back to the Dacapo – If I’d known what I was getting myself into when I started the design, would I have attempted it? but the Dacapo design was also a defining moment in my career and more importantly to my understanding of Clock Jitter and Digital audio.

Once thing is for sure I’ll be so happy once the PCB design is completed (and tested) :)

Then the next stage will be production….
 
LarsS said:
@ John,

Managed to erase my previous post. Anyway my question was if you're following the same design path as Lukasz Fikus and Aqua i.e. retrieving the digital signal prior the chips (eg Sabre) digital filters?

Ideas like this that Lukasz had long before starting his own business - - > http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/TRANSPORT/behringer/Behringer.html

/Cheers

Lars

PS: John, you're f*****g bad at planning your work, let me help you for the good of us all. I understand that you're a creative engineer, my favourite project member.

March 1'st next year I'll be retiring from my project manager position witihin IT & Banking/Finance. My first grandchild has arrived (oct 12, a girl) and I decided that she is more important then work, and she is. Having built several private and corporate netbanks for major european banks, I see that I can play a role in straighten this project for the good of all of us. My strength is in understanding creative people/engineers, structure work aso and lead them to a common goal.

Let me know if I can assist you John and all our fellow PFM'rs to agreed common goals, free of charge. DS
Click to expand...

LarsS,

I appreciate your offer - but if I where 'managed' then I'd loose the very 'ethos' of my designs.

I'm with you, I'm a total nightmare and why I've never been fully employed by a company, rather always worked as s consultant which gives me that extra flexibility I require.

As we approach production then I really need to consider employing someone to take on this burden (I've put this off until the Lab is completed due to space issues) - production needs organisation, planning and follow through - this are not my skill set!... but its a good start to see ones weakness :)

I counting on the PCB subcontractor to arrange general component sourcing - I'll source (collect) the more critical components during by visit to China.
 
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