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May's Trumpism

Street crime is obviously connected to police numbers on the street. Just another bad outcome from the foolish Austerity regime.
 
midband said:
PM declares "no direct correlation between certain crimes and police numbers".
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That statement as quoted may be accurate as it is so vague, e.g. corporate tax fraud will be largely unconnected to police on the streets. Her recent statements that knife crime is unconnected to the Tories absolutely slashing police and social service funding to the point neither remains remotely functional is clearly bollcoks aimed at the thickos who consitute the core Conservative voting demographic. As with most things she says it doesn’t stand even the slightest scrutiny.
 
As hinted at by Tony, it's not just Police numbers.. It is a cumulative effect of austerity, cuts, failed privatisations, the neglect of education and training, the decimation of youth oriented services including Sure Start, Youth work, Careers work, Training, Employment initiatives, etc. Disaffected or even just directionless youth, with low esteem, low expectations, low availability of much beyond 'Mac jobs and the 'Gig economy'. Youngsters actively recruited into drug trafficking and so on.

Clearly, no correlation whatever between the above and rising knife crime.
 
farfromthesun said:
Whereas you could absolutely guarantee that had Police numbers been decimated under Labour, then there would be a correlation.
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This is why it’s pointless Labour trying to compete on this ground, it can’t win. May’s right: there’s very little evidence of significant, direct connection between violent crime and police numbers. Labour shouldn't be pushing for more cops and more prisons.
 
Seanm said:
This is why it’s pointless Labour trying to compete on this ground, it can’t win. May’s right: there’s very little evidence of significant, direct connection between violent crime and police numbers. Labour shouldn't be pushing for more cops and more prisons.
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I think you missed my point a bit. I am not saying Labour should be competing, or whatever, I am saying that if it had not been the Tories who have slashed Police numbers (by 20,000 since 2010 to around 120,000 now) then no doubt May would have been blaming those who made the cuts and attributing the rise in knife crime to a depleted Police force. Instead, it was her - so she's attempting to pass the buck here, quite obviously.

Had Police numbers been higher, perhaps they wouldn't be as stretched as they seemingly are, stuck behind desks doing paperwork, less visible Police on the streets, and perhaps less likely that kids would be wandering around with kitchen knives in their jackets, because there is a greater deterrent out there which makes them think a little bit harder about what they're doing.
 
farfromthesun said:
Had Police numbers been higher, perhaps they wouldn't be as stretched as they seemingly are, stuck behind desks doing paperwork, less visible Police on the streets, and perhaps less likely that kids would be wandering around with kitchen knives in their jackets, because there is a greater deterrent out there which makes them think a little bit harder about what they're doing.
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and make people feel safer so less likely to feel the need to carry a knife.
 
farfromthesun said:
I think you missed my point a bit. I am not saying Labour should be competing, or whatever, I am saying that if it had not been the Tories who have slashed Police numbers (by 20,000 since 2010 to around 120,000 now) then no doubt May would have been blaming those who made the cuts and attributing the rise in knife crime to a depleted Police force. Instead, it was her - so she's attempting to pass the buck here, quite obviously.

Had Police numbers been higher, perhaps they wouldn't be as stretched as they seemingly are, stuck behind desks doing paperwork, less visible Police on the streets, and perhaps less likely that kids would be wandering around with kitchen knives in their jackets, because there is a greater deterrent out there which makes them think a little bit harder about what they're doing.
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Sure, on the first point. Disagree on the 2nd.
 
farfromthesun said:
Care to elaborate why?
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We already had (have!) loads of cops: police numbers relative to the population doubled between the war and 2010. There's no evidence of any significant causal relation between police numbers and violent crime, and lots of reason to believe that cops going around performing stop and search on black kids has negative effects. Not only will piling up cops not solve the problem, it will channel attention and funds away from more positive solutions and shore up an already toxic and authoritarian law and order discourse. Labour are crazy to try and outflank the Tories from the right, it's always counterproductive. Today we've had Javid promising increased police powers and Williamson offering to send in the army. Not good!

Two brilliant interventions yesterday from people from over-policed communities say it all, as far as I'm concerned:

https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/05/alex...e-crime-debate-benefited-environment-8820467/

https://twitter.com/channel4news/status/1102685970720272384
 
I entirely agree that more needs to be done from a social perspective. But on the numbers thing, I don't agree - nor does the Police Chief, Home Office, Mayor, Leader Of The Opposition, etc etc. No doubt at all that the Tories own the lot, though.
 
farfromthesun said:
I entirely agree that more needs to be done from a social perspective. But on the numbers thing, I don't agree - nor does the Police Chief, Home Office, Mayor, Leader Of The Opposition, etc etc. No doubt at all that the Tories own the lot, though.
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No surprise that the Police Chief should want more police and more police powers. No surprise either, sadly, that Labour should try to make political capital out of this in a bid to keep their right wing onside. There are no disinterested parties in this: if there were, they'd be pointing to the evidence, which suggests at best a minimal and tenuous link between police numbers and violent crime.
 
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