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Mains Lead £1870!!!!!

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Could it be that expensive cables have better earth connections than a lot of kettle leads and that is causing a difference in SQ?

Trying to be objective here. Hope nobody minds.

Thinking of starting a company that sells 3 foot pure silver grounding rods. Only £50k a pop. Gold plating is extra.
 
Could it be that expensive cables have better earth connections than a lot of kettle leads and that is causing a difference in SQ?

Trying to be objective here. Hope nobody minds.

I 'm pretty sure the answer is no (or our RCBOs would all be tripping).
 
The answer is indeed no. In fact, many don't even have a larger diameter conductor than a standard mains cable (though some do).
 
Could it be that expensive cables have better earth connections than a lot of kettle leads and that is causing a difference in SQ?
Not really, you have a copper wire going from one end to the other and a 30 second test with nothing more sophisticated than the multimeter in my toolbox will tell anyone that the resistance of that cable is effectively zero. A "better" cable will offer no better or worse a connection to earth or indeed to L and N.
 
I think the cable companies are not being ambitious enough in their technology, where are the cables made out of single crystals ? would easily fetch £50k from the discerning billionaire. If it's good enough for jet engines surely it would be ideal for mains cables.

well I never, OCC cable is single crystal, can be had for not much money.

I like the chutzpah of these guys though, it's got everything, shame they got the length wrong.

The "Venom" is the first Audiophile Power Cable to use Rectangular Silver wires, some of us know how much of an improvement rectangular silver can make to both speaker and headphone cables and that improvement is as apparent in the "Venom" power cable.

http://www.toxic-cables.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=71
 
Could it be that expensive cables have better earth connections than a lot of kettle leads and that is causing a difference in SQ?
There is a minimum wire size set by approval regulations. Exotic weaves make the earth wire inductance higher than a kettle lead
 
In will shortly be offering a 49 core pure Silver (Ag 107) hexagonal form Lang's lay (7x7) interconnect cable.

This will feature perfect signal transmission and retail at a reasonable £14999 per linear ( mono) centimeter. Termination via solid (Ag 107) couplings will range from £ 4999 per ( mono) spade connector to £ 8999 per RCA (mono) connector. ( Please call for quote on other connectors)

I am currently researching a range identical to the above using Ag 109 isotope Silver. This will offer perfect signal transmission + approx 20%.

Cost estimated at Ag 107 prices + 75%.

For a Catalogue, please forward £500.

To be placed on waiting list, please forward £1000, of which 25% is deductable from your first order.

Sincerely,


Value Cables.
 
Having observed this thread for some time I am coming to the conclusion that most people are simply getting entrenched in one camp or the other – and to me that is possibly the main issue here – each side declaring they are correct and so the others therefore must be wrong.

If some people say they can hear differences in their music who am I or anyone else for that matter to say they cannot? Just because I can’t, or that I don’t believe it possible for some reason, does not then mean it can’t be true.

It seems the main argument against special leads is that there appears to be no measurable or logical reason as to why the sound should change by using one cable or another. Many good theories, many based on good physics, as to why there cannot be a change have been put forward, but just because something is not understood does not mean it can’t happen. Ball lightning for example is a known phenomenon yet scientists are still unable to explain exactly why or how it happens – but happen it does.

Also we need to take into account that no two people hear in the same way. Frequency range differs from person to person but perhaps more importantly so does frequency sensitivity. Many people can hear when certain harmonics are present or not whilst others cannot – some people are so insensitive they are unable to distinguish between a flute and a violin. They are not deaf – it’s just the way their brains and hearing differentiate various sounds differs from other people.

Maybe we all have to accept that the mains possibly carries all sorts of rubbish as well as the 50hz we all wish to use – and so perhaps there is a chance some of this does get though to our audio kit, and if so, may for some equipment affect the way the circuits respond. To say it can’t is nonsense – but equally to say it does is also flawed – unless we can prove it by measuring it – and thereby lies the real crux of the issue – measurability. If we could measure such an effect there would be no doubt on either side – but we can’t at the moment so each “side” has their own opinion, but highly biased and based on their own experience and expertise.

The problem is however that if we could measure an effect on the sound then there would be no doubt, but if measurements came to nothing it would still leave doubt because you cannot measure nothing or “no effect”. So back to square one!!!

I for one find it hard to believe that £1800 is a reasonable price to pay for something which appears to do so little in real terms – “bang per buck” maybe the value term I would wish to use her. However, I don’t think the claims of people who have bought such devices can be quite so easily dismissed. Maybe for some there is some expectation of a change and therefore something is perceived, but its unlikely that that is true in every single case.

If indeed there is something more to this whole issue to understand, then no doubt in time someone will bring forth the explanation. If not, then we will continue to speculate and believe what we wish – and this thread will run and run!

That's about the size of it I reckon.

One final observation though - I think it is highly unlikely that someone who can drop a couple of hundred grand on a system comprising say Wilson MAXX speakers driven by FM Acoustics or D'Agostino electronics would wire everything up with cheap cables or mains leads. Much more likely that such a person would go for the best that money can buy, even if the measurements aren't great.

Everything in proportion?
 
It cannot be denied that some people are hearing a difference, and the odds are that not all of them are imagining it.

Therefore it is as yet unexplained.

Scientists will never accept that ghosts exist because they cannot be detected with gross material instruments. But many people have experienced their presence.
 
The worrying part, especially coming from engineers, is the word believe. Imagine a bridge building engineer saying "we believe it's strong enough to cope with high winds".

That's precisely what happened with the Tacoma Narrows bridge. Opened 1940. Fell into the sea... 1940. Windspeed that killed the bridge: 40mph.

OK, 1940 is a long time ago, and engineering has learned a lot since then, and a lot of that learning came from discovering why the original Tacoma Narrows bridge behaved in that way (forced resonance and aeroelastic flutter, apparently).

Engineers learned from this bridge collapse, and discovered what conditions caused the problem, how to prevent them, and how best to fix them when they occur. Despite this, and despite sophisticated computer modelling systems, unexpected resonances in bridges do still occur; the embarrassing lateral vibration in the first days of the Millennium Bridge being a fine example.

The point is the 'linear' view of scientific and technological development doesn't always echo in reality. Gravity existed before Newton quantified it; it was a 'known unknown' to use Rumsfeld-speak. Bridge builders need to 'believe' their bridge won't fall down, then have some of them fall down, find out why those ones fell down, to better 'believe' the next one won't fall down.

To quote Beckett: "Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." To stymie this process is to stymie development, even if you don't personally like the path that development is taking.
 
It cannot be denied that some people are hearing a difference, and the odds are that not all of them are imagining it.

Therefore it is as yet unexplained.

Scientists will never accept that ghosts exist because they cannot be detected with gross material instruments. But many people have experienced their presence.

Why are the odds in favour of it not being imagined? Sight and hearing are so easily fooled by "biases" that the exact opposite is true.

Similarly, amazing advances in neurochemistry research, especially using real-time MRI are suggesting that experiences like déjà vu - for instance - might have an explanation in brain chemistry. Ghosts and near-death experiences can't be far behind...
 
Why are the odds in favour of it not being imagined? Sight and hearing are so easily fooled by "biases" that the exact opposite is true.

Similarly, amazing advances in neurochemistry research, especially using real-time MRI are suggesting that experiences like déjà vu - for instance - might have an explanation in brain chemistry. Ghosts and near-death experiences can't be far behind...
Why are some so opposed to some hearing the difference, why does it have to be imagined,

I tested again last evening, sitting in front of my system at low volume as I always listen, the "difference", though I prefer the word improvement, was there, it is hard to describe but the sound is just more direct & involving with my cable in place, when replaced, the sound became more distant & less involving, this is not imagining, it is there, I have not tried many mains cables, this one is certainly doing as I describe, maybe others don't, could not comment as I havn't tried them.

Ghosts are usually attributed to the stress of grief, electrical activity in the brain as is the same with the near death experience, these are attributed to either physical or mental stress, audio is the complete opposite, it is, in my experience, a very relaxing, enjoyable experience, not associated with any kind of stress causing my brain to malfunction as with ghosts or near death experience so I think the two cannot be linked in any way.
 
The odds of differences being imagined every single time are slim indeed, especially when several people have reported hearing differences in blind tests but these reports tend to get swept under the carpet or dismissed as being merely 'anecdotal,' or lies.
 
It cannot be denied that some people are hearing a difference, and the odds are that not all of them are imagining it.

Therefore it is as yet unexplained.

Scientists will never accept that ghosts exist because they cannot be detected with gross material instruments. But many people have experienced their presence.

I think you draw a very good parallel there. Audible mains lead differences are just like ghosts. Neither show up in any scientific measurements or controlled tests, and still a lot of people are absolutely convinced they are real.
 
The odds of differences being imagined every single time are slim indeed, especially when several people have reported hearing differences in blind tests but these reports tend to get swept under the carpet or dismissed as being merely 'anecdotal,' or lies.

They are anecdotal by definition, and I don't think anyone is calling them lies - I think most of us acknowledge that the people reporting the differences really believe they are hearing them.
 
They are anecdotal by definition, and I don't think anyone is calling them lies - I think most of us acknowledge that the people reporting the differences really believe they are hearing them.
Because they are

Bit patronising!

You were offered the chance to put this to the test by one member but you sadly declined I believe.
 
Why are some so opposed to some hearing the difference

Many of us, who understand the physics and actually design and build gear, are not opposed per se - but just as with ghosts, we have failed to find any reliable evidence. And something that can't be measured, understood or even reliably shown to exist is not very useful when trying to find out what really affects the performance of a system. Unless you understand how it works, you can't really improve things.

Ghosts are usually attributed to the stress of grief, electrical activity in the brain as is the same with the near death experience, these are attributed to either physical or mental stress, audio is the complete opposite, it is, in my experience, a very relaxing, enjoyable experience, not associated with any kind of stress causing my brain to malfunction as with ghosts or near death experience so I think the two cannot be linked in any way.

The causes may be different, but both effects feel "real" in the same way to the people experiencing them.
 


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