I can appreciate the reasoning behind pruning threads of abusive or personal attacks, but surely whether or not they are tedious is subjective. And if everyone simply made up their own minds, there wouldn't be much left to discuss.
Main power cables
- Thread starter ariegur
- Start date
-
- Tags
- mains cable
I can appreciate the reasoning behind pruning threads of abusive or personal attacks, but surely whether or not they are tedious is subjective. And if everyone simply made up their own minds, there wouldn't be much left to discuss.
Tony L
Administrator
The AUP (Terms And Rules link at the bottom of every page) covers cyclic argument very clearly. Everything I removed can easily be covered by that clause. It is nothing new, I wrote it at least a decade ago!
PS For clarity here is the AUP clause:
Cyclic Arguments
pfm will not host lengthy multi-page cyclical debates that become more entrenched and aggressive with each repetition of a point. Certain audio topics seem particularly prone to this e.g. DBT / ABX testing and the whole subjective vs. objective debate. A poster may be banned from the forum should they not heed moderation requesting that a subject or repetitious viewpoint be dropped.
Cereal Killer
432
Excellent!!
Has anyone noticed theirs a fair few mains cables for sale in the PFM Classifieds section?!
Has anyone noticed theirs a fair few mains cables for sale in the PFM Classifieds section?!
Cereal Killer
432
Not just cyclic, but condescending to any other viewpoint other than the 'one point perspective' from there soapboxes
DNM
pfm Member
Censorship for commercial gain. I've always suspected it on PFM but good to know exactly which side of the Gaffers bread is buttered!
Tony L
Administrator
Two of the worst offenders here were trade account holders who were to my eyes making endless tedious and unwanted agenda posts. They have both been warned countless times. To be honest I’d happily lose both of them just to open up discussion and have some much needed balance on the topic. I want the site to be neutral on the subject, I really don’t want to host aggressive, arrogant and rude agenda posts from either side, and to put in perspective I’ll happily lose the 2x£50 in trade accounts if the two in question don’t raise their game, which rather blows your dig out of the water! I’m just sick of coming back home after a few hours out to find about 10 pages of utter shit that needs moderating!
PS Do you honestly think that Arye, who started this thread and IIRC actually accesses the site through language translation software, wanted 19 pages of cyclic ego and posturing when he started the thread? Did it help answer his question?
.
DNM
pfm Member
I don't have a "dig" other than a sense of fair play. Some of the 200 or so posts you deleted were anything but "aggressive", "arrogant" or "rude", let alone agenda driven IMHO. And to delete every single post, however reasonable, from all of the individuals that clearly get your goat, is quite unedifying from the host of a forum, who I for one, expected better.
The fact that you raised the concern of putting "cable advertisers off from advertising on this website" is ironically not a good advert for PFM, IMO. But its your forum and I respect you letting us know your modus operandi.
For what it's worth, I stopped contributing to the thread when it started to get repetitive and personal, but I don't think that my posts were either of those things, and yet they're gone along with the rest. Obviously that's hardly the end of the world, but it does make me (for example) less inclined to get involved in discussions here in future, which ultimately defeats the purpose of having a forum in the first place.
Tony L
Administrator
In any entrenched cyclic argument such as this it is inevitable some good/innocent posts get lost in the crossfire. It is just far to time-consuming to do anything else and it is why this is such a clearly stated and forceful AUP clause.
I perhaps should have phrased it as ‘cable punters’, which you can not deny make up a fair proportion of audio buyers. If you were a forum owner would you really allow a tiny minority of exceptionally opinionated posters, some of which with commercial motivation, to bully a whole market segment off the site? I just want to host a polite and respectful middle-ground where all topics can be discussed without bullying, trolling, ego, entrenchment and agenda.
Well, all my posts here got dumped, and I went out of my way to be inoffensive and objective. I asked Arye to report back on what he heard with and without his new cables, he agreed, that got dumped. I later suggested that ears are not scientific measuring instruments and are connected to a very unreliable recording device. Gone too. Ah well, it's not as if anything I write here matters a toss. It's only noise at a pub table. Tony could just as well kill everything in the Brexit thread that's over a month old, it's not as if anyone is giong to read it again. I'm going to do something more worthwhile, like sweep out the garage.
DNM
pfm Member
Tony, first off, I have the utmost respect for you in founding PFM and turning it into such a vibrant, informative and amusing forum in which a broad church of audio reprobates like me want to hang out. I for one, and I'm sure many others, are grateful to you for that. Furthermore, I don't for one minute underestimate the considerable challenges you and the Mods must have in moderating the 'Monster' you've created!
The concern I have however, is that PFM turns into a polarised community whereby the owner evicts residents simply because he doesn't like them or its not in his commercial interests.
It hasn't escaped my attention that when you look at the posting numbers, PFM has become more of an Off topic forum than an Audio forum, and you seem to spend more of your time in there than on here. The DIY section however, is flourishing, which is a credit to you and the contributors with the ability or balls 'to have a go', and the dialogue is courteous and educational.
I can only urge you, for the sake of the 'Green' and pleasant Audio forum, to place your apparent personal views to one side and moderate it in a fashion that is democratic, inclusive and above all fair.
Tony L
Administrator
I thought I was! Sure, I’ve clearly upset you on this thread, but I have to the best of my understanding moderated to the majority viewpoint who, trust me, are hugely annoyed by these tedious cyclic objectivist/subjectivist arguments.
Remember I get to see a heck of a lot more than you, e.g. the reported post queue, all the deleted content, the views of the rest if the mod team, my personal PMs etc. Push comes to shove I will side with the majority of audiophiles who just want a friendly, calm and balanced discussion room without feeling under personal attack from just two or three people if they so much as mention a cable. For evidence have a good close look at the system pics here, over on Steve Hoffman’s site, Naim, Wigwam etc etc. The vast majority of audiophiles do not use cheap crap from B&Q or wherever to wire up their systems! Why should the majority be constantly trolled by a couple of posters with agendas?
PS I largely agree about the off topic room, but the UK is in a social and economic death-spiral at present and any site that allows the basic concept of political discussion will inevitably reflect that. It is just a mirror to reality. I actually split my time pretty much evenly between there, the classic room (which is my spiritual home) and the music room.
Andrew C!
Been around a while....
Tony
Have you thought of some kind of sticky to previous such posts, making folk use the search function, or indeed read those posts via hyperlinks? There is precious little new tech in the area of cables, nor has there been do for ages, so the advice on the older threads will still be credible?
Personally, I feel the cull was long overdue.
Have you thought of some kind of sticky to previous such posts, making folk use the search function, or indeed read those posts via hyperlinks? There is precious little new tech in the area of cables, nor has there been do for ages, so the advice on the older threads will still be credible?
Personally, I feel the cull was long overdue.
DNM
pfm Member
Tony, I'm really not that upset for me because I've come to the conclusion that I could take this site or leave it.
Maybe I'm an outlier, but IMHO, PFM has always comprised a broad church of rank subjectivists on the one hand and the technically proficient on the the other, then the in-betweeners like me.
You might want to consider that the in-betweeners and technically proficient may not feel welcome any more.