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Magnus Resigns Move 1!

Discussion in 'off topic' started by matthewr, Sep 19, 2022.

  1. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    If anyone has been following the chess scandal, anal beads and all, Magnus just resigned on move 1 in his return match against Hans. ZOMG! as the kids say.

    Talk about it here. Or not if nobody likes Chess.

    A catchup video if you don't follow Chess.

     
  2. omers

    omers pfm Member

    OMG indeed! Have watched the previous match on agadmator's channel.
    Proving now that Niemann cheated is nigh impossible, proving that he didn't cheat is theoretically impossible.
    So it's up to your belief, intuition or who you like. (I"m on Magnus's side).

    Except for that ending slide in the clip you attached. If D. Rensch of chess.com has evidence showing what he hints at, i.e.. That N. cheated more frequently and also when playing for money, he should show it. If it's true I fear people will have to accept the guy is a serial cheater.
     
  3. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    Yes, agree. Magnus must have more evidence or else this is just bang out of order. I mean you either need proof or need to keep quiet, whatever one thinks of Hans and his previous record.

    I'd like to see more some computer analysis of the game he won, although I kind of suspect that nothing will show up as all the GMs who have looked at it see nothing unusual so far other than the overall circumstances.

    (Sorry I changed the clip to a GothamChess one which is a little more to the point and includes today's development).
     
  4. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    This new game possibly gives a bit more weight to the prep leak theory as he resigned after Hans second move?
     
  5. saturn9

    saturn9 Shadow Member

    Magnus must have more than just suspicion, can’t see him acting like that otherwise. But as world champ he carries a lot of weight. Don’t see where niemann goes from here.
     
  6. omers

    omers pfm Member

    Not sure, playing 2. C4 after 1... Nf6 is the expected move, no? Unless Hans usually plays e4, I don't know.

    If Magnum suspects cheating but has no cutting proof, his behaviour is human. Perhaps not optimal, but understandable. He will not say Hans cheated w/o proof because that's libel, what else can he do? True he slightly risks his reputation and that of the tournament, but OTOH it's hard to play someone you think is cheating. They are all humans, Magnus too. If Hans cheated at least twice in the past, the implications are all Magnus's fault?
     
  7. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    I am a terrible chess player (732 on chess.com) so don't really know, but wondered if it implied something from his prep. Although it's so generic an opening I guess not really.
     
  8. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    It is basically an impossible situation for him and pretty shoddy from Magnus. Unless he absolutely knows, in which case he needs to show the proof.
     
  9. saturn9

    saturn9 Shadow Member

    Snap.
    Watching Gotham doesn’t translate into my own games
     
  10. omers

    omers pfm Member

    All this wouldn't have happened if Hans hadn't cheated. Not saying he is doomed, or guilty forever. But there are implications for cheating and he should understand that and deal with it. It's nothing legal, but human. He can take a cooling period, play at lesser tournaments or ones where Magnus is not playing. It's not like he got a death penalty.
     
  11. omers

    omers pfm Member

  12. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    Yeah, but once you think something is amiss as Magnus clearly does, he can't really play him anywhere. Or at least that seems to be what a few chess professionals I have watched seem to be saying. Hikaru seemed to have expected this for example.

    Also this tournament was arranged well before the controversy so I guess there is no way to change the lineup now.
     
  13. omers

    omers pfm Member

    True. obviously it's now political and social with opposing camps etc.
    from chess.com https://www.chess.com/news/view/2022-julius-baer-generation-cup-day-2 :

    "
    GM Levon Aronian, who stood up for Niemann in St. Louis and called his colleagues "paranoid," gave a rather different comment this time in the official broadcast: "I understand the frustration of Magnus. I really didn't know much about a lot of things, and now I'm somewhere in the middle. I do believe that Hans has been not the cleanest person when it comes to online chess but he's a young guy and hopefully this will be a lesson to him."

    Aronian added: "Since we had the chat with some online server people and we found out a lot of things about Hans, the multiple instances of him cheating, I think that creates a problem for Magnus. At this moment he's just saying: OK, I will not play against this person, and that's it."
    "
     
  14. richardg

    richardg Admonishtrator

    how do online chess competitions have any cred....of course its so easy to cheat in situations like that.
     
  15. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    For regular people it's quite easy to catch online cheats who get banned all the time on the major sites. Stuff that is not appropriate for your playing level is just very obvious.

    For high level players it's a lot harder, but broadly analysis relative to "perfect" engine play and a bunch of heuristics about the difference between elite human and engine play.
     
  16. mansr

    mansr Objectionist

    Why does anyone play chess any more? It's a solved problem.
     
  17. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    I await your proving that to Carlsen!

    PS It’s a fascinating situation. I’ve been watching a few videos since Matthew started the thread. I knew Who Magnus Carlsen was, in fact I could name maybe four chess players, which is more than I could footballers, but I don’t really follow it. I’ll be following this though. Even subscribed to a chess YouTube channel (the first one Matthew linked to and later changed).
     
  18. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    The best ones are GothamChess (linked above) and Agadmator. Gotham does good training and recaps and is a bit more entertaining (in a chess sort of way!). Agadmator is the best for pure recaps. Hikaru is the mega chad of the chess streaming world.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/AGADMATOR
    https://www.youtube.com/c/GMHikaru

    Although you really have to be interested in chess to get anything out of these outside of a rare event like a major scandal.
     
    Tony L likes this.
  19. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    I think I’d like to kind of follow it from a distance. I’m not a good player, in fact haven’t played for decades. I used to be able to beat my grandfather much of the time as a kid, but haven’t played much since. I’ve enough knowledge that I could follow a game and be amazed by someone’s moves and how a game develops, but I haven’t got the motivation/dedication to learn and become good. I’m the same with computer games, I actually far prefer watching game streams than actually playing myself. No idea why. I also find some of the people interesting, e.g. I follow Garry Kasperov on Twitter as he’s usually got a good take on stuff, especially politics. I watched a documentary on Magnus Carlsen a while back (on Prime I think) and that was fascinating too. As such I’d be very much casual spectator level, nothing too technical.
     
  20. david ellwood

    david ellwood Kirabosi Kognoscente

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