spacey - I can't remember the model number of the Adams - they certainly won't have been the current designs. I'm sure they have moved on since then. Certainly in the ones I listened to the dipole driver was woefully not integrated. The only point I'm trying to make is that novelty is no guarantee of improvement in sound quality - a pair of Quads will easily outperform most speakers designed in the last 20 years in many areas. Alas the market favours novelty and hype; stable, sorted well engineered designs don't attract attention in the same way. I'd love to know of a mid-range unit that does what ATCs does.
Magazine compares active and passive ATC SCM50
- Thread starter vln
- Start date
Volt make a VM752
http://www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/vm752-499-p.asp
http://www.solen.ca/pdf/volt/vm752.pdf
...that looks very promising A few speaker builders are going to these instead of the SM75-150/S it looks like it could also be a plug in replacement. Not an option for me as I am building clones, but good to know. Pricey though.
Robert
Tapehead
The isoplanar tweeter is cleaner in terms of distortion and it can operate better at the lower than usual crossover frequency chosen. It also matches the dispersion characteristics of the main driver better at the crossover frequency.
The radiating area of the isoplanar tweeter is large at the low end (about 4x that of a dome) and progressively narrows with increasing frequency.
Nothing against domes though and in a different speaker design they might be the better option overall, though probably not in terms of absolute distortion.
Small domes in particular can have issues with distortion at the low end of their range. You also have the problem of differing dispersion patterns where they cross to the larger main driver. Off axis response always suffers and so therefore does the in room power response of the speaker system.
martin clark
pinko bodger
Planar tweeters can have some very particular problems of their own though - particularly thermal - and BL-product is inherently very low (= low electrical efficiency, and low damping). Doesn't mean thaey cannot work very well, but together these things point to using 'em with a xover up as high as possible.
bottleneck
pfm Member
...it was the ''things have improved so much in audio'' comment for me too.
... I see...
improved power handling in drive units
higher tolerances in manufacturing, in some cases leading to lower distortion
capacitors which are likely to have 'much' longer working lives than very old models..
apart from that ? what's new ?
Back onto ATC, there's no doubt in my mind the ATC dome is one of the best mid-range drivers in the world. I find other ATC drivers (whilst not such stand-out sonic achievements) to be an excellent match for the mid-range unit (sonically and in my opinion).
I agreed with Markus's earlier comment - we need to say that perhaps the magazine DID find the passive version sounded better with expensive amps, and at least presume they have journalistic integrity rather than none.
..as for ''active vs passive'' that is a debate that could run and run. Life is too short however, and the weather too sunny!
... I see...
improved power handling in drive units
higher tolerances in manufacturing, in some cases leading to lower distortion
capacitors which are likely to have 'much' longer working lives than very old models..
apart from that ? what's new ?
Back onto ATC, there's no doubt in my mind the ATC dome is one of the best mid-range drivers in the world. I find other ATC drivers (whilst not such stand-out sonic achievements) to be an excellent match for the mid-range unit (sonically and in my opinion).
I agreed with Markus's earlier comment - we need to say that perhaps the magazine DID find the passive version sounded better with expensive amps, and at least presume they have journalistic integrity rather than none.
..as for ''active vs passive'' that is a debate that could run and run. Life is too short however, and the weather too sunny!
Cereal Killer
432
Cereal Killer
432
PS just playing µZiq's Drum Light via Spotify. Awesome. Props! Plus I hear what you are saying WRT all that background data. I love all that texture that the track has. Like the very particular levelling clip that Moritz von Oswald always uses on Rhythm and Sound and on Basic Channel mixes. It sounds like grime until you hear is texture and shape and then you go "Ahhh! I Geddit"
PPS and before anyone else says it...
there.
VGood innit
. Been collecting their albums since the early 90's. All are worth a listen. Dunstisbourne Abbots Soulmate being the latest. Try some in lossless the layered info is awesome. If you like I could email you a few or host a few on mediafire etc.
Spacey, re u-siq. Some high points in their career might be good, but I use spotify premium to test the water and then get the vinyl. Not buying as much vinyl these days as I've a private project studio to build but I budget a bit for records. Hifi threads subverted into music discussions is prolly the best thing for when discussions get graphs in them.
My ATCs absolutely killed any interest in upgrading (and in hifi in general, there is so much rubbish and ego attached to high-value purchases I'm glad I got where I am so cheaply and that's that). As y'all know I was chopping and changing every few months for a few years in the bad old days with racks, different amps, cd players and critically different carts.... the ATC precipitated the end of all that. And getting them first would have saved me a lot of wasted time with stands and boutique amps. Had mine... around 7 years now and still love what they do and i think they are essential if you like to disassemble, get inside, unravel and generally tear apart music up to it's constituent parts... A very particular sounding even handed speaker that's easy to set up and deep listen to for hours on end.
But that passive xo is a power hungry little sod and Imo is best avoided.
My ATCs absolutely killed any interest in upgrading (and in hifi in general, there is so much rubbish and ego attached to high-value purchases I'm glad I got where I am so cheaply and that's that). As y'all know I was chopping and changing every few months for a few years in the bad old days with racks, different amps, cd players and critically different carts.... the ATC precipitated the end of all that. And getting them first would have saved me a lot of wasted time with stands and boutique amps. Had mine... around 7 years now and still love what they do and i think they are essential if you like to disassemble, get inside, unravel and generally tear apart music up to it's constituent parts... A very particular sounding even handed speaker that's easy to set up and deep listen to for hours on end.
But that passive xo is a power hungry little sod and Imo is best avoided.
Sorry to be boring about this, but can you please just remind us how you compared the two speaker systems? Were they auditioned in the same room?
Cereal Killer
432
Fox, their discogs is very very long. Done all sorts. Tango invective is cool old skill bleeps and breaks. You can sample then on bleep.com. They produce a lot on vinyl so worth doing so research.
Cereal Killer
432
Bub, you know you deserve it to yourself to listen to a pair of Deltas or Gammas against your 100's .
As you know it wasn't possible to do an A/B dem but there really is little in common. The Deltas have an obviously clearer more insightful and viscular way of presenting music.
From my mates who have heard both systems, they have all made the same observations. Albeit via a simpler vocabulary as in " that sounds amazing", these people have no agenda or give a shit about hifi....
.As you know it wasn't possible to do an A/B dem but there really is little in common. The Deltas have an obviously clearer more insightful and viscular way of presenting music.
From my mates who have heard both systems, they have all made the same observations. Albeit via a simpler vocabulary as in " that sounds amazing"
, these people have no agenda or give a shit about hifi....Enough said.
apart from that ? what's new ?
Aluminium, magnesium, titanium, ceramic, diamond, kevlar, carbon fibre, papyrus, nomex, wool, and woven polyproplylene.
Apart from that, not much.
Nothing better has been done since the days of WE, Altec, Klangfilm, etc...as far as cone material is concerned. As far as driver/magnets are concerned, nothing better has come along besides field coils and electrostats...also old technologies. New stuff especially the talk of space age material are all bullshit marketing.
Cereal Killer
432
Plenty has changed and moved on, speakers are not just drivers stuffed into birch ply boxes with a simple hand wired x-over. Advancements in design have been huge, advanced materials may not have much effect; in the bigger picture of things we have moved on - IMHO of cause
bottleneck
pfm Member
apart from that ? what's new ?
Aluminium, magnesium, titanium, ceramic, diamond, kevlar, carbon fibre, papyrus, nomex, wool, and woven polyproplylene.
Apart from that, not much.
wool (!) has been invented recently..?, papyrus?
Shush, don't tell the neighbours..
cooky1257
pfm Member
Beryllium, neodymium magnets, new adhesives, Computers! Laser interferometry in manufacture/R&D, all have been deployed on the shoulders of these giants.
Why are so many of these newcomers small lifestyle speakerettes and still sound a bit shit next to some good old fashioned tannoy dual concentrics?
High tech materials and processes is invariably used to drive prices down, it seems to me anyway, making speakerettes for crappy far eastern a/v slim tower speakers - rarely do these great tech advances materially progress the state of the art...
High tech materials and processes is invariably used to drive prices down, it seems to me anyway, making speakerettes for crappy far eastern a/v slim tower speakers - rarely do these great tech advances materially progress the state of the art...