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Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 with Tannoy Turnberry GR

P

panditr

pfm Member
Hi,

Anybody using the Lyngdorf 2170 with the Tannoy Prestige series?? Does the room correction actually eliminate the room and is there any loss in dynamics?

The reason I ask is because I have a horrible room (living room) and I cannot make much changes to treat the room and it's also expensive.. Currently using a Luxman 505UX and a Chord 2Qute with the Turnberry GRs...

Please share experiences with the Lyngdorf especially the room correction software...
 
I can't exactly answer your question but I offer the following for what it's worth.

The Lyngdorf is around £3,000. The MiniDSP with Dirac is around £1,000. The Berhringer DEQ2496 digital equaliser is around £300 and using this plus Room EQ Wizard (REW) software (which is free) but with it's associated bits and pieces, say around £150, for measuring.

All achieve more or less the same thing. The Lyngdorf is apparently a lot easier to set up, the MiniDSP a bit more complicated and REW with the Behringer probably the most difficult. I use REW and the Behringer. The MiniDSP and Behringer do have an ADC and a DAC but are not amplifiers.

If you use the cheaper options you might have money available for room treatment, particularly bass traps. Check out GIK Acoustics in the UK whom I've used.

I would suggest that first you try and get the best sound from what you've got with positioning of speakers and listening chair. I appreciate your circumstances may not allow a lot of flexibility here but perhaps you can place these things for listening then store them out of the way. I use this method but there are others:

http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/monitoring.htm

The object is mainly to reduce the damage rooms do to bass but also to help with reflections

Then, if you can, use room treatment. GIK offer an advisory service in the hope of selling stuff but their advice is honest. Mostly likely they would suggest bass traps in the wall-wall corners behind the speakers and then elsewhere. There are 'art' versions of some of their products that make them more palatable. One thing room treatment can do which DSP/EQ can't is reduce decay times - echoes basically. High decay times muddy the sound - lowering them gives a crisper sound. Mine are around 120 milliseconds (ms) to 180ms which is probably a bit low for some tastes - 200ms is supposed to be good.

Even if you can use room treatment, and certainly if you can't, Digital Signal Processing (DSP) will make improvements. I use the Behringer to tidy up the bits the room treatment can't solve.
 
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I am a Lyngdorf dealer, so not entirely neutral on this one, but I can say with complete honesty that the TDAi2170 and its RoomPerfect room correction system is very impressive indeed. I won't pretend to know how RoomPerfect works, but it does certainly allow you to place speakers where you (and the family) would actually like them to go, and still get fantastic sounds and music. I use the TDAi2170 with KEF LS50s and the bass depth and control with RoomPerfect engaged is quite extraordinary. There are other benefits, apart from bass response and definition, namely much more accurate soundstaging and imaging. I was intensely suspicious about the effect of RoomPerfect and its DSP on real music, but in fact real music seems to entirely benefit from what the system is doing. There is no reason whatsoever why RoomPerfect would not work magic with your Turnberrys.

RoomPerfect does a really great job of optimising the room, and as such goes a great deal further than anything you can achieve with panels, bass absorbers etc, all with one convenient box that's not stupidly priced and which encompasses a very capable and fruity amplifier. The room measurement process is semi-automated in that you just follow simple instructions on the amp's screen until it tells you that it has learnt enough about the room. Once the system measurements are done and RoomPerfect engaged, there is no loss in dynamics - in fact quite the opposite is true.

If you're in the UK, you're welcome to have a TDAi2170 on home trial - that really is the only way to tell if it and RoomPerfect is going to work for you.


panditr said:
Hi,

Anybody using the Lyngdorf 2170 with the Tannoy Prestige series?? Does the room correction actually eliminate the room and is there any loss in dynamics?

The reason I ask is because I have a horrible room (living room) and I cannot make much changes to treat the room and it's also expensive.. Currently using a Luxman 505UX and a Chord 2Qute with the Turnberry GRs...

Please share experiences with the Lyngdorf especially the room correction software...
Click to expand...
 
I've not tried the Lyngdorf solution (but would like to sometime) but have used Meridian's room correction with their G68 pre/processor, and since moving on to playing files from a PC have used REW and JRiver with quite a bit of success. Best results so far, however, have been using Dirac software on the PC which seems to improve the impulse response as well as altering the frequency response. It did take a few experiments with measurement in Dirac to get a really beneficial result.
 
I have not heard your Tannoys.

I currently have the TDA-2170. Speakers I already had and were used with various amps in the same room over a number of years - Kef Ref 205 and B&W 804D2. Both were obviously more enjoyable once the RP had been applied, I didn't feel anything had been taken away, the Lyngdorf lets you bypass the correction with a single press on the remote so it's easy to hear what RP does.

I do not have a dedicated AV room anymore, so room treatment / bass traps and the like are simply not an option, I suspect like many UK homes I use the Lounge for AV/Hi Fi.

I now have ESL-11a speakers and am upgrading to the TDA-3400.

I appreciate you can cobble things together much cheaper but as a simple one box solution the Lyngdorf amps are very capable and well made/great sounding units. A home demo would make sense.

Gus
 
I have not actually tried the Lyngdorf system, but I could make an educated guess as to how it works. All of these systems aim to apply a specific target curve at the listening position. Some systems allow you to apply your own curve. Others will use a curve which is predetermined by the manufacturer. RoomPerfect is a measurement-based system, which in my opinion is inherently superior to model-based systems like Linn's Space Optimisation (although Linn would certainly disagree). There are outboard hardware and software options for achieving essentially the same thing, with varying degrees of automation and customisation available. We even stock a speaker with onboard parametric EQ. None of them can do exactly what physical room treatment can do, but they can certainly improve things immensely. Your local Lyngdorf dealer should be able to provide you with a demonstration. If you are anywhere near Cheshire, I would be happy to demonstrate what can be achieved with this type of technology. I have a few different hardware and software options here.
 
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I have a dedicated room, 7.1 x 4.3 x 2.4 meter, with some treatments, speakers, listening
seat etc all perfectly symmetrical.

Right after the happiness of finally moving into it I got dismayed upon hearing it. That was with ESL-63 and
traditional amplification.

Ultimately I fled to the TDAI-2170. Doing setup as per instructions (one measurement in the listening
position, numerous measurements randomly distributed over the space), it balanced the image,
but a lack in mid bass and an excess around 2kHz persisted. None of the voicings (fixed eq curves)
in the TDAI-2170 helped.

I changed over to ProAc D40 speakers. Same story.

Then I cheated and ran setup with all measurements closely around the listening position. That was much better.

RoomPerfect can work, but it might take some effort. Even then the TDAI-2170 lacks something indispensable:
user control by means of additional tone controls or, much better still, a parametric equaliser.

The forthcoming TDAI-3400 has this. I would buy one immediately if it were not so ugly. It really looks like
a defaced 2170.

--
I also have a MiniDSP/REW rig. I am using this for developing a DIY active speaker. This speaker uses a BMR midrange and
crosses over at 300Hz. With the diffraction of this wide-dispersion driver against the cabinet and that low a crossover
I can tell you that trying to measure and compensate this in-room is a totally maddening experience. Moving to
the garden or garage improves things, but still not very useful.

I gave up and started repairing antique cassette decks to regain my sanity.

For the speaker development the next stage is that I will rent an anechoic room for a day...

--

You must also keep in mind that no DSP system can cure a totally bare, reflective room. DSP is for speaker/room/listener
matching in the bass, and for speaker correction in midrange and treble. DSP is not for midrange and higher room correction.

The term 'room correction' is a misnomer.
 
Interesting that you can’t edit the house curves of the tdai-2170, which for me would be an essential.

Fortunately this is something you can do in Dirac. It does correct over mid and high ranges as well as bass and I suspect that this is where improvements in impulse response result in improvements in imaging. It isn’t just about FR. Whilst many room correction systems limit themselves to bass it isn’t cast in stone that this should necessarily be so. Dirac certainly seems to be a more complete solution than, say, Meridian.

It does take some experimentation with mic positions to get a result that works really well for ones needs. In my case everything is set up for a single listener although Dirac can be used to make a balanced compromise over a wider listening area. With all these solutions, success depends on judging just how much correction is applied. In Dirac this is limited to choice of mic positions, which can be down to luck, experiment and perseverance and editing of house curves which is much more controllable.
 
The only system I was happy with for both AV and Hi Fi was based on a Meridian 568.2MM, otherwise I've tended to have AV with DSP RC and straight 2 Channel old school systems, until I heard Lyngdorf with my Kef Ref 205's which I bought ex dem about a dozen years before. I've just gone for the new 3400 trading back the 2170.
 
I’ve just installed a Lyngdorf SDA-2400 power amp into my system. Quite a beast. My first skirmish with a non Class A/B amp. Colour me impressed!
 
I had a home dem of the tdai and whilst ultimately I preferred my (much more expensive) valve set up I thought it was an impressive bit of kit.

With the room perfect off it sounded like many other SS state amps I've heard. It took a huge leap forward when the room perfect was turned on ( you switch it on and off from the remote) it was quite impressive to hear. No noise floor oodles of power and looked very nice.

I almost switched to one but there was something slightly sterile (I do mean really slight) about the digital. I do love the valve take on things - but it was close. Well worth a dem.

I could clearly hear the difference in my room but I'd still recommend getting one in to try before buying.
Other solutions suggested maybe great but note I'm pretty sure Room Perfect is a Lyngdorf in-house product. So may work differently and sound different for it.

For a one box solution it was deeply impressive, and the volume knob.... well I'd have almost bought it just for the knob ;)
 
Werner said:
I have a dedicated room, 7.1 x 4.3 x 2.4 meter, with some treatments, speakers, listening
seat etc all perfectly symmetrical.

Right after the happiness of finally moving into it I got dismayed upon hearing it. That was with ESL-63 and
traditional amplification.

Ultimately I fled to the TDAI-2170. Doing setup as per instructions (one measurement in the listening
position, numerous measurements randomly distributed over the space), it balanced the image,
but a lack in mid bass and an excess around 2kHz persisted. None of the voicings (fixed eq curves)
in the TDAI-2170 helped.

I changed over to ProAc D40 speakers. Same story.

Then I cheated and ran setup with all measurements closely around the listening position. That was much better.

RoomPerfect can work, but it might take some effort. Even then the TDAI-2170 lacks something indispensable:
user control by means of additional tone controls or, much better still, a parametric equaliser.

The forthcoming TDAI-3400 has this. I would buy one immediately if it were not so ugly. It really looks like
a defaced 2170.

--
I also have a MiniDSP/REW rig. I am using this for developing a DIY active speaker. This speaker uses a BMR midrange and
crosses over at 300Hz. With the diffraction of this wide-dispersion driver against the cabinet and that low a crossover
I can tell you that trying to measure and compensate this in-room is a totally maddening experience. Moving to
the garden or garage improves things, but still not very useful.

I gave up and started repairing antique cassette decks to regain my sanity.

For the speaker development the next stage is that I will rent an anechoic room for a day...

--

You must also keep in mind that no DSP system can cure a totally bare, reflective room. DSP is for speaker/room/listener
matching in the bass, and for speaker correction in midrange and treble. DSP is not for midrange and higher room correction.

The term 'room correction' is a misnomer.
Click to expand...

Totally agree about the design, how a company that has such a good design pedigree can put a usb input on the front like that really pusle me ! At least they could have hidden it behind a door!! Makes it look really cheap, I wish the used the case from the surround processor , that case looks beautiful.
 
Agreed the 2170 is a much nicer looking unit, I'll have the 3400 in a closed cupboard so it doesn't bother me.
 
Has the RoomPerfect software moved on since its early versions? I tried the TDAi2200 extensively about 10 years ago or so, but was not impressed, I thought the RoomPerfect adjustment robbed the music of life and energy.

I've been using Lyngdorf SDA2175 power amps since 2005, except when I had flirtations with active speakers, and I have always thought they were superb.
 
alanbeeb said:
Has the RoomPerfect software moved on since its early versions? I tried the TDAi2200 extensively about 10 years ago or so, but was not impressed, I thought the RoomPerfect adjustment robbed the music of life and energy.

I've been using Lyngdorf SDA2175 power amps since 2005, except when I had flirtations with active speakers, and I have always thought they were superb.
Click to expand...

Yes, RoomPerfect has definitely evolved since its first outing with the TDAi-2200, which as you say was a tad hit and miss. That’s why I was so suspicious about its effect on real music, but with the TDAi-2170 I find that the effects of the system are musically positive. I’ll be demonstrating the TDAi-2170 with RoomPerfect at the North West Audio Show in June.
 
Thank you all for the comments.. .I think I will take the plunge on the Lyngdorf but now am confused if the 3400 is better in SQ (any tech. upgrades over the 2170) or does it just have more power and a media server? Shuggie, could you help in the differences between the two technology wise?

As I said, room treatment is not an option for me as I use my living room for listening and neither do I have the knowledge or the patience to apply bass traps... Hiring a professional would be expensive and so would the GIK panels... The Room Perfect option seems easy to install and if I could get a better sound keeping my speakers close to the back wall, I get the benefit of a bigger room as well.... So a Lyngdorf it is... Just need to decide which one...
 
don't quote me but from what i gather the 3400 has


ethernet - so a control app
dlna streaming and is a roon endpoint
usb front
headphone front
aes digital in
32 eq voicing
better hdmi board option
usb board now standard​
 
I have not yet had my hands on the TDAI-3400, but increased power apart, its main pluses over the TDAI-2170 are the user adjustable voicing tools, configured via a handy web interface, a headphone jack and the built-in media player, which is Roon Ready, and avoids the need for a separate streamer box.

Is there a ‘sound quality’justification for the TDAI-3400 over the TDAI-2170? Probably not, since both share the same underlying amplifier topology and clever stuff like Lyngdorf’s Inter Sampling Clipping Correction - the buying decision will most likely be down to whether 400w of power is needed, and the additional features. For me, that killer feature would be the media player and headphone jack, but I know that the user configurable voicing options are important for many people. The TDAI-2170 has a set of basic, pre-set voicing curves that are sufficient for my needs and tastes, and its 170w power output is enough to drive my hungry little KEF LS50 speakers to very anti-social levels.
 
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