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Luxman/Accuphase/Yamaha - Quality?

Discussion in 'audio' started by Paulq2, Jun 11, 2020.

  1. booja30

    booja30 pfm Member

    It seems like Sansui had an attempt at a comeback at some point:


    It looks a lot like a modern Accuphase/Denon inside. Symmetrical amp section and preamp/phono squeezed into a compartment on the right. These are quite valuable, but at the time they must have not been successful enough.
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2021
  2. maccar

    maccar pfm Member

    I've heard this about Accuphase Class A amps, that they don't run as hot as others... I used to own the Sugden Masterclass IA4 which was pretty toasty, but the hottest one I tried was the MF AMS35I.
  3. James

    James Lord of the Erg\o/s

    I think you will find quite the opposite when it comes to Yamaha and Pioneer of the 70s and 80s.

    Yamaha MOS-FET amplifiers C-1/B-1 and C-2/B-2 were legendary. Their CA-1000/1010 and CA-2000/2010 integrated amps are highly desirable, even today.

    Pioneer Spec-1/4 amps, together with their silver-faced series of components aren't exactly mass market items. Their 20-series amplifiers have stood the test of time. I still use a mint pair of Pioneer C-21 / M-22, which are not shamed by anything I've compared them against.
    ToTo Man and norliss like this.
  4. norliss

    norliss pfm Member

    I bow to your direct experience! I'm a big Yamaha fan but always had the impression that Sansui stuff was seen as slightly better - perhaps it was an incorrect impression.
  5. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

    The Series 20 PA-1000 tonearm was pretty fine too.
  6. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

    I had no idea that Sansui were ever considered "a cut above".
    RJohan likes this.
  7. James

    James Lord of the Erg\o/s

  8. James

    James Lord of the Erg\o/s

    That makes me somewhat sceptical about their class A rating, but who really cares when it sounds sublime, right?
    maccar and booja30 like this.
  9. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    Many of the Japanese brands had ranges that included upmarket equipment that was never sold in Europe or only sold in Germany
    Rockmeister likes this.
  10. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr neither here nor there

    I vaguely recall that Accuphase was set up by ex-Sansui techs, possibly dismayed at the move down market. Not sure if it’s true, but that pic does, as you say, establish a very visible link, doesn’t it.
  11. James

    James Lord of the Erg\o/s

  12. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr neither here nor there

    Ah, thanks yes. It was indeed Trio/Kenwood.
  13. norliss

    norliss pfm Member

    Indeed. Their high-end direct drive turntables are a good example of this. The indigenous HiFi manufacturers of many western countries were scared shitless by these. So, knowing they'd never be able to compete with the R&D and in cahoots with the press, they told everyone that DD was crap and only belt drive were proper tables.

    Fast forward 3 or 4 decades and look how well regarded those juggernaut DD tables are alas they're relatively thin on the ground given they were only ever sold in Japan. To keep this thread (just about) on-topic, it's worth saying that both Yamaha and Luxman had some lovely turntables but to my knowledge, it was never an area into which Accuphase got involved?
    davidsrsb likes this.
  14. vln

    vln Shuns mooks. And MQA.

    Looks lovely Tony! (I own the previous generation, C-2120 pre and A-47 power amp)

    Are you using a Urika as a phono pre, powered by the Radikal?

    And, just for shits and giggles, have you compared Accuphase's DAC-60 board to your chord DAC (with or without Scaler)? You might be surprised - I know my DAC-40 board ran the DC-37 close, sometimes a bit too close for comfort.

    Furthermore I'd be worried about the Fraim glass not being able to take the weight of the A-48... you sure that's OK?
    Suffolk Tony and maccar like this.
  15. vln

    vln Shuns mooks. And MQA.

    My Accuphase dealer (with decades of experience with the brand) insists that the magic is in the preamps. Perhaps I am temped to try the successor of the 2450, which should come out soon, judging by the model cycle in Accuphase's "product museum" page (frankly every brand should have something like that).

    As to which pre is appropriate for which power amp, that's an interesting question given that there are 4 pres for only 3 class A and 3 class A/B power amps (leaving aside the somewhat special case of the A-36 which seems to be mostly used in multi amp setups and is long overdue for a change anyway).
    Suffolk Tony, James and maccar like this.
  16. James

    James Lord of the Erg\o/s

    Not unlike Naim then. When do you think the C-2450 will be superseded? It is already pricier than the A-48.
  17. RJohan

    RJohan pfm Member

    Some even had upmarket brands, in Toyota -> Lexus style, Hitachi had something called Lo-D, Onkyo had Scepter (maybe only speakers), etc. Very little of this was seen outside Japan.
  18. Suffolk Tony

    Suffolk Tony Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.

    Hi Vin,
    Yes, the Urika's the phono pro. In my desire to reduce my box count as much as possible, I did try the DAC board in my previous E-650, but it didn't compare well with the DAVE, even with the M-scaler. Not surprising really, given the price difference. The other problem was that it slightly degraded the sound quality of the E-650.
    vln likes this.
  19. JTC

    JTC PFM Villager...

    Must. Resist. Thinking. About. Pre/Powers.... the raison d'être behind my move to an überintegrated was to reduce box count after all.... in any case, I doubt there's really much to be gained in such a move, I find it difficult to imagine what else I could want a hifi to do :)
    maccar likes this.
  20. Rockmeister

    Rockmeister pfm Member

    Knowing the sum of nothing much about electronic innards, I'd like to hear the engineers opinion about pre/power vs integrated amps. 'In the old days' I understood it was to do with shielding, and component/wiring run separation, cooling and other mechanical stuff? I wonder now if, with advances in materials, this is the case? Given the two approaches using the same componentry, would they sound different, and why?

    Where's Jez when you need him :)?

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