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LP12 Stick or Twist?

Discussion in 'audio' started by taffyboy1, Jun 24, 2022.

  1. Miss Ariel

    Miss Ariel pfm Member

    I really like my L4 Colin it really tightens everything up with separation in the mix a really big upgrade.And after the basic Majik power supply and the fafth of playing at 45 with the adaptor a real joy.
    Karousel and L4 work superbly together.

    But the L4 epitomizes Linn's prices you could by buy a Rega P8 for the same money.

    I do think Linn have got like Naim charging what they know they can get away with price wise.Where Rega have always offered superb VFM on all their range.And superb performance.

    Love my Aethos - Aria - Saturn R and IO :)
     
  2. Salamander

    Salamander pfm Member

    @Miss Ariel You've hit the nail on the head with this remark "But the L4 epitomizes Linn's prices you could by buy a Rega P8 for the same money." I only ever heard the Lingo 1 with my LP12, have to say it was a big improvement, making sense of complex recordings that had been previously 'difficult' to listen to. I moved on to a PTtoo from the Linn, the profit enabling me to replace all my system when returning from abroad. The PT did everything the Linn was supposed to do and more, that is why I listed a few other tt's, not necessarily for the OP to change, but just so he can see what else is out there.
     
  3. NickofWimbledon

    NickofWimbledon Well-Known Member

    @Miss Ariel - You can buy a Lingo 4 on eBay for about £1100, it seems, and sell a Lingo 1 for around £400. I am not sure you'd get a P8 for that, but the general point about pricing these things when new is very fair. By comparison with the mark-up on a Keel or those new cartridges though...

    @Salamander - As I hope the overall collection of responses shows, lots of us read this as primarily about a possible swap to Rega P8 versus upgrade to LP12, with the latter option looking credible to several of us because he already has one.

    I hope that no-one is suggesting that these are the only 2 turntable makers. If my LP12 vanished in the night, there are at least 7 tables I'd try, perhaps more, mostly unsuspended designs. I haven't seen/ heard a PT for many years, but my recollection is that they were amazingly fast (due to the chunk of Aerolam perhaps) if not exactly neutral - sort of the opposite to Voyd or SME. Is that about right?
     
    Miss Ariel likes this.
  4. Salamander

    Salamander pfm Member

    @NickofWimbledon I can only compare the LP12 to the PTtoo, Ekos on the Linn and RB300 on the PT, it's quite a few years since I sold my LP12, and I moved on to a Lenco from the PT. I would probably agree the PT did sound faster, maybe due to having a slightly leaner bass, but the main improvement for me was to be able to listen to all my albums, rather than a selective few on the LP12. I wouldn't say the Lenco was better sounding than the Pink, just ease of use and never brought attention to itself, one just enjoyed the music.
     
    Miss Ariel likes this.
  5. Rockmeister

    Rockmeister pfm Member

    Just to extend that out a bit, there have been a good few designs since Linn followed the Ariston/Thorens path, that have successfully combined both the speed of lighter platter, non suspended decks, with the bass punch and depth and feel of the Linn. In fact (and not intending to offend) bringing more accurate, deeper but still 'foot tapping' bottom end to the recording.
    I think Tom Fletcher, among others, pioneered the 'high mass platter/small motor/unsuspended deck' approach. Nottingham Analogue sound really excellent, and John Palmer followed this design path to create his own variation to much acclaim. That's just one avenue well worth exploring. Used NA's are well within Taff's budget.
     
    Miss Ariel and Salamander like this.
  6. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Going from an LP12 to a PT GT/ SME V was a revelation. I still hanker after that sound but I found out it sounded fast because it was fast. The orchestra was literally retuned to a semitone above. They should get back into the market.
     
    Salamander likes this.
  7. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig Trade: ^'- -'^

    That's the Ekos vs the RB300, simple as that. I've never used a Linn arm since trying an RB300 in place of my Ittok. Took a while to beat the Ittok across the board but the standard RB300 could play all my records as you say. The better Rega arms retain this ability but add clarity, dynamics etc.
     
    Miss Ariel likes this.
  8. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig Trade: ^'- -'^

    I'm still toying with the idea of a Rega 24v motor and Neo driving the LP12.
     
  9. Chris

    Chris pfm Member

    Interesting about Linn arms vs. Rega arms. I would agree that I used to have records which didn´t sound as good as others on my LP12/Ittok up until when I fitted the blue belt and found the best way round to fit it. Now I think the odds have levelled up and they all sound pretty good. I can´t help thinking that the primary function of the belt is to filter out certain frequencies of motor induced resonances which affect the sound negatively and in second place it helps make things go around. Much cheaper than changing arms or deck.

    All my gut feeling, of course. Probably well out.
     
  10. tpetsch

    tpetsch pfm Member

    Why don't you just plop a P10 into a gutted LP12 plinth so this way you can still call it an LP12?

    ...And as a bonus you can retain the benefits of the dust cover.
     
  11. Salamander

    Salamander pfm Member

    Well that's quite extraordinary news, LP12 sounds the same as PTtoo ;)
     
  12. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig Trade: ^'- -'^

    If anything I'd expect the Pink to be less forgiving than the Linn which is why the RB300 suits it and the LP12 can get away with the Ittok. There is a reason you don't see Ittoks and Ekos' on turntables other than the LP12.
     
  13. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig Trade: ^'- -'^

    It's always a balancing act. I think the Ittok and Ekos are great arms but like anything else it's all about matching. The Rega arms are easier to deal with as I think they are more neutral straight out of the box.
     
  14. dave charlton

    dave charlton pfm Member

    Interesting recent take on an LP12 vs a Tango'd Planar3 (no connection to the host)

     
    Miss Ariel likes this.
  15. NickofWimbledon

    NickofWimbledon Well-Known Member

    Many LP 12 owners have had the ubiquitous Rega arms in the past on LP12s. Some swear by them while many didn’t like the combo and eventually gave up on the arm or the LP12. Whether that history has any connection to how a newer arm than an RB300 fares is unknown, at least to me.

    in any event, Linn’s cheaper arms now seem well-suited and functional amd my Ekos is a joy.

    Other arms might work better, but who has the time and money to find out? I have not yet heard anything to suggest that the arm is the weak point in my record-playing experience.
     
  16. windhoek

    windhoek The Phoolosopher

    As to the OPs question, I say keep the LP12 and buy another deck anyway.

    Case in point, I was getting ready to throw my LP12 in the bin last night (okay, slight exageration) as it just sounds terrible compared to my Technics 1210GR. In fairness, it's more that a lot of my records sound terrible or not enjoyable to listen to through my LP12 (technically speaking, I'm talking LP12 + Tannoys + living room). My better sounding records, mostly pre-digital records, sound great of course. But I've got a lot of modern vinyl that just sound rubbish going on unbearable through my LP12; so much so that I always end up playing the same records over and over, the ones I know that sound great. In contrast, I've yet to hear a bad sounding record on my Technics deck, everything is just so enjoyable.

    To cut a long story short, I've aborted plans to use my Technics deck in my bedroom system and instead have returned it to its rightful place in my living room; for some reason, the Technics deck has much more synergy with my bad records and my Tannoys, unlike my LP12 which can only play the good stuff. Seriously, I just can't live with how bad so many of my records sound on my LP12 (LP12 + Tannoys + room), and knowing how good the Technics deck is, well to not use my Technics deck in my main system feels like a form of self-inflicted harm.

    The thing is, all my records used to sound good and quite enjoyable before I bought my Tannoys so I know my LP12 has the potential to boogie. So seeing as I do need a turntable in my bedroom, I put my LP12 in there last night and lo and behold, it sounds great. Paired up once again with my Kan-like Kralk Audio BC-30s, the LP12 is in its element and pumping the boogie into my bedroom like it used to do in my living room.

    Although my Technics deck sounds great in either room with either system, my LP12 is a poor match with my Tannoys (+room), but it's an excellent match for the bass-lite bookshelf speakers in my bedroom so that's where it's gonna stay. So yeah, OP, buy another deck anyway and see what it brings - you just might end up with the best of both worlds :)
     
    Mr Pig and Miss Ariel like this.
  17. dave charlton

    dave charlton pfm Member

    Your'e not alone in modding an LP12 with Rega bits. Roy Gandy fitted a P9 motor and P9 PSU plus an RB1000 to a well known hi-fi critic's LP12 back in the day. The final concoction was an LP12 with Rega mods, Audioflat Rubikon subchassis/armboard, Tiger Paw Khan top plate and a Sound Smith Strain Gauge cartridge. I think said critic later returned his beloved Aro to the Linn and ironically moved to an RP10 with an Apheta 2 as his reference.
     
  18. Salamander

    Salamander pfm Member

  19. windhoek

    windhoek The Phoolosopher

    I had the chance to play a few records on my LP12 last night and sure enough, the boogie factor was back in full swing. It just goes to show that no matter what may be said about a piece of kit in general regarding how it's likely to perform, there are simply no guarantees when it comes to actual usage - different systems and different rooms really do play a major part in determining how a given piece of kit will perform once you've got it plumbed in. My LP12 is a terrible front end for my Tannoys as it's somehow limited to playing great-sounding records. But match it with a pair of Kan-like speakers in a mid-field setup (just under 2m from speaker to listening position) then bam, it boogies like ****!

    My Technics deck can boogie with my Tannoys no sweat, but my dear old LP12 just needs to be in the right system and right environment for it to really shine. Considering how old it is, I guess it's finally back in its natural habitat: a phat-bottomed front end paired with a bass-lite pair of bookshelf speakers rammed tight against the wall :)
     
  20. windhoek

    windhoek The Phoolosopher

    Oh, another thing that's come to light is that changing carts has much less of an impact in general than changing decks. I tried a few carts on my LP12 when it was in my lving room system as the front end to my Tannoys and none of them allowed me to play all my records the way the Technics can or the way my LP12 can now that it's matched up with once again my Kralk Audio bookshelf speakers. I've tried an AT OC9 MLii, an AT VM95ML, an AT VM95E and a Denon DL-110 HOMC and none of them made that much of a difference when it came to allowing me to play all my records - the modern records in my collection that sounded rough on the ears still sounded rough on the ears. It seems to me that changing carts is not a cure for a deck that doesn't sound right to begin with.

    The cart on my LP12 just now is a Rega Exact and although it never made a difference in this regard either, it sounds great where it is, at the business end of a vinyl system that's comprised of a pre-Cirkus LP12, a Rega IO amplifier (with built-in phono stage) and a pair of bass-lite bookshelf speakers :)
     

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