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lp 12 best bang for money purchase

I'm genuinely interested in opinions on the LP12 sweet spot.

From what I've been told I would look for pre-Cirkus, corner-braced plinth, on-board Hercules, non-Linn arm.

Any good?

Would also like to hear a PT as it goes.
 
I'm genuinely interested in opinions on the LP12 sweet spot.

From what I've been told I would look for pre-Cirkus, corner-braced plinth, on-board Hercules, non-Linn arm.
Not heard the Herc.

I don't think I've heard enough options to have a view on 'the' sweet spot but certainly, for my preferences, a late 80s Valhalla LP12 / Ittok / VM95E or 95C is 'one' sweet spot.
 
From what I've been told I would look for pre-Cirkus, corner-braced plinth, on-board Hercules, non-Linn arm. Any good?

Sounds reasonable to me. As always, it depends on the condition and the price. The problem is finding one that does not have a shagged out bearing. Things like springs and grommets are not too expensive, hinges are about £50 a pair and if the rest looks good it is good. Bearing rocks or has a big black dot on the end of the spindle, walk away.
 
So have you listened to an Orbe or haven't you? Of course we all like different things and you are perfectly entitled to make your own choice, but 'boring' is not something I've ever heard in the same sentence as an Orbe before.

If you are so bored with music that you need it to be artificially enlivened ( PRAT maybe?) then perhaps you need different music, or different expectations.

I'm just saying that we like different things.
 
Mention LP12 and to some it becomes an obsession.
And to some, attacking it becomes an obsession, as we see in this thread, and every other when someone asks for advice about an LP12. The usual members, banging the same tired old drum.
When I bought mine, I didn't intend to spend that much. I went to audition the AR against the RP3. Neither quite did it for me. The dealer, Bill, said "I know it's out of your price range, but listen to this", and brought in a LP12 with Basik arm and cartridge. I was convinced.
At the time there was no other serious dealer in Leeds. The Pink Triangle may have been available had I Wanted to travel, the Roksan was not yet on the market. I made a choice based on an audition, and I've been happy with it for nearly 40 years now. Very possibly a modern deck could sound better to my ears, but quite frankly, my dears, I don't give a damn. I like my Linn.
 
And to some, attacking it becomes an obsession, as we see in this thread, and every other when someone asks for advice about an LP12. The usual members, banging the same tired old drum.
When I bought mine, I didn't intend to spend that much. I went to audition the AR against the RP3. Neither quite did it for me. The dealer, Bill, said "I know it's out of your price range, but listen to this", and brought in a LP12 with Basik arm and cartridge. I was convinced.
At the time there was no other serious dealer in Leeds. The Pink Triangle may have been available had I Wanted to travel, the Roksan was not yet on the market. I made a choice based on an audition, and I've been happy with it for nearly 40 years now. Very possibly a modern deck could sound better to my ears, but quite frankly, my dears, I don't give a damn. I like my Linn.
The attacking it becoming an obsession is exactly what I meant.
 
All these recent and not so recent LP12 threads leave my baffled.... one minute it's coloured, lacks detail, inaccurate and distorted, then next minute people are preaching a non cirkus old 80's spec because it's sterile and lost it's warmth and character... But other brands are allowed to sound uncoloured and accurate but they are okay?
The cirkus upgrade, which was bearing AND a stiffer sub chassis was one of the best value upgrades in the history of the LP12. If it wasn't the system was/is heavily skewed to offset the old LP12 sound. Ie old forward aggressive Naim amps being toned down with a warm coloured source, two wrongs to make a right? You can guess I never went the Naim amp route, preferring the Linn options that played music as whole rather than audio vivisection.

For sure there are other turntable options, but Linn has evolved the deck like no other, no other can be "tuned" as much to a sound by it's spec to match a system.
Perhaps Linn should have stopped it and design something completely new, they surely could have, but can you image the out cray of all the people complaining they had to start again... either way they would be accused of being in the wrong by the same old detractors.

I've lived with an LP12 for over 30 years, yes done the upgrade path along the way at various times to current Klimax spec. I have second at cirkus/Lingo1/Ekos2 level (my left overs from upgrades). My reference along those years, to gauge it's "accuracy", it's colourations etc has been a Linn digital source rather than other TT. (Karik, 1.1 and all the DS streamers)
The two have generally sat happy together, the better source has swung a little back and forth over the years and specs. My logic is if nothing else a digital source is an "accurate" source to voice and measure your system by. Plus I needed the two formats to live together so no point going down the route of a system that was a skewed one trick pony.

So the VFM point. Cirkus + Lingo + Later spec Akito or similar 3rd party arms. Something like an Adikt cartridge. Top plate extra bolt only makes the set up easier, done right doesn't mater much if it's an older one.
Push this to a later Lingo3 a Kore chassis and an Ekos2 I think you have got as far as the "affordable" used route takes you.
A Radikal is a superb upgrade but the budget starts run up then.
The strength of the LP12 is wide range of options and choices, the problem everyone compares and talks across purpose and compares apples with oranges to suite their own agenda, bash or praise.
 
I really have better things to do than to 'attack' the LP12..especially as I owned one myself for nearly 20 years but.. OTOH.. I get pretty sick of the still prevalent idea that somehow 'THE' LP12 is some sort of Kite Mark of quality. It isn't. I think I outlined 'upthread'.. what I think about the looks and superficial quality of the thing.

'Fruitbox' is a bit unfair.. but not far off. It's a bloody wooden box containing a pretty basic and long outdated design, 'rescued' by extremely expensive 'upgrades'.. which take it far from its origin at a huge price.

It's also well documented (and admitted here.) that the early LP12 just happened to be coloured in ways which made it a good match for its contemporary NAIM amps. Add in the influence of a UK hi fi press which 'dissed' everything else. and the rest is history.

I really don't care who uses or wants to use an LP12,or to what level of lunacy they want to take it. That's up to them. I won't bother again thanks.. at any price.

Now, I'm equally uncaring what people think about the likes of the Michells.. but they have a more clever subchassis, more sensible bearing and suspension , plus a physically isolated motor. Thus.. they 'cure' in their basic design.. many of the ills which are built in to the Linn.

Just sayin'..
 
The old LP12 isn't so much different from say a TD160,
the advantage to me of the LP12 is the availability of aftermarket subchassis and the Lingo as a good powersupply.
Getting rid of the old subchassis is making a substancial difference, I'd not choose an Ekos today again though.
I'd get an old LP12, some fine-tuned RB250, an aftermarket subchassis, a s/h Lingo1 and rubber suspension.
That'll get you stunning performance considering what it visable, and very nice to look at.
The power-supply may be debated about, opinions may differ here-that is mine..
but the other items combined will give you a value/money-bomb in today's LP12 terms,
add an OC9 or something in that direction and you'll have good fun. (TA alternative: Roksan Nima)

You won't have an RP10 killer then, I haven't compared it but have little doubt the biggest Rega is better.
The interesting task to me is to get all the important pieces that do make substancial difference
for a decent price and to avoid all the expensive stuff that doesn't make *that* much difference really.

The PT1 is a very nice deck btw, heard one with an Alphason arm, that's definitely good value.
 


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