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lp 12 best bang for money purchase

O

oceanobsession

pfm Member
Recently purchased a cadenza blue , listened to it on a lp12 lingo 3 circus and a gelco , sounded good to me , natural sounding , never would have ever considered such a purchase but on the day it played every lp i had taken in to the dealer to listen to the cadenza blue great , so its got me thinking , i like natural sounding and instruments sounding right and i thought this lp12 sounded great , but dealers being dealers will never tell you what sounds the best , its what makes them the most money , not knocking the guy who runs the shop , if they were honest you would buy secondhand every day of the week , so there not , anyway whats the best bang for buck to buy , and does the gelko tonearm compete with the linn competition , power supply which is the best bang for buck , the circus seems to be highly rated , i may still purchase the roksan xerxes plus , but its got me thinking , phil.
 
Right you've got the Cadenza blue. I happen to own two Kontra b's which are the direct predecessor, and rather good they are in the correct setting, but I have to say the LP12 isn't that! The Kontra b was pretty much designed to work with high mass arms such as those made by Linn, Rega, Naim and so on, and it does. The Cadenza might be a bit more widely targeted so perhaps not a direct read across, but when I owned a Linn I also happened to own an original Elite Rock with a J7 fettled RB250 and a Michell Orbe with a Graham 2.2.

The Rock/RB250/Kontra b/Lingo2 so easily saw off the Linn/Ekos2/Lingo2/Troika I had previously favoured (in terms of resolution and naturalness) that I immediately bought out of the Linn bullshit. The Kontra b doesn't seem to suit suit the Graham arm on my Orbe, but an old MMC20 does and I find that better still. I just never really bothered with the Linn after that and never actually bothered fitting a Kontra b to it since the gap was petty big and I'd have needed to tweak the phono stage gain and load to make the switch.

The Rock/Kontra b and Orbe /MC20 still survive in my system. The Linn doesn't. Nuff said. The Rock is definitely second fiddle though.

I don't know if that helps at all but I suspect the weakest link is the Linn.

A something else with a rega arm might be a sensible direction to try.
 
Every manufacturer bullshits to a greater or lesser extent, IME I can only think of a couple that don't. All makers claim that their products image superbly, play rhythms like a samba band and exactly reproduce the original instruments.

Linn and Naim's real sin was being too aggressive with their sales and marketing. The magazines in the 80s have their share for not having the guts to stand up to them and acknowledge that there are different strokes for different folks, some people like other things than PRaT.

But this was all so long ago, 40 years or more. It's more than time to let it go. It's like still blaming the Germans for the 2nd World War.
 
Jelco arms are great and work a treat on an LP12, an SA-750d will beat an Ittok IMHO, but not an Ekos/Ekos2. I had a Cadenza blue in an Ekos 2, it was utterly stunning.

By the way, if your dealer is Clive at Sound Cinergy, and by the sounds of the demo deck, it could well be, he’s as straight as they come, absolutely top bloke, I have total faith in him. If you wanted to buy a used deck and then get an arm, cartridge etc fitted by him, I’m sure he’d be more than happy to advise and assist. He knows the LP12 as well as any of the famous LP12 Gurus.
 
linnfomaniac83 said:
Jelco arms are great and work a treat on an LP12, an SA-750d will beat an Ittok IMHO, but not an Ekos/Ekos2. I had a Cadenza blue in an Ekos 2, it was utterly stunning.
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I have an LP12 with 750d, Hana SL sitting at the front. It really sounds sweet to me, I've not been happier.
 
Firstly, setup and support are crucial to LP12 performance so bear those in mind.

I find your question tricky to answer. The Radikal is still the biggest upgrade you can fit to a modern LP12, so Majik LP12 + Radikal should beat the deck you heard. But it's very expensive too. Whereas, the Kore is much cheaper. Not sure that really helps much.

You're better off finding a reputable dealer and hearing some options, assuming you're willing to buy from them.
 
Buying an LP12 is a bit of a minefield these days. You can't look at the range of decks on the market simply in terms of performance because the different variants do not offer liniar improvement. Older and newer spec decks sound sufficiently different that you may like one and not the other.

The older ones, often defined by being 'pre-Cirkus', have a warmer, more airy sound which to me is more lifelike and likable. Later decks sound tighter and more detailed but more clinical. I prefer the former. Personally, I wouldn't buy an LP12 today.

For many years Linn were practically worshiped. Buyers walked into a dealers wanting to buy an LP12 before they'd even heard one. Linn took advantage of this and milked their customers to the point where it's hard to look at their pricing structure without getting annoyed and it will be difficult for them to undo that. I'm sure they still sell turntables but I don't see a rosy future for the LP12, as a new purchase anyway.

New ones cost too much. Don't get me wrong, they are well built and exude quality but sonically, other options offer real competition and better value. You'll find a lot of other brands in window of your Linn dealer today. Even, shock horror, Technics!

Older LP12s can sound nice but are they good value? Maybe, if you never upgrade them or listen to anything else. Things have moved on and for the price of your vintage Linn you could probably buy a new Rega that in many situations and to many people is going to be better. If nowhere near as cool looking.

Or you could start on the never ending upgrade path and end up spending a fortune on it and sure, it'll sound a lot better. But considering how much it will have cost you, so it should! And it still won't sound as good as a new deck which cost the same money.

For me though, the unforgivable thing Linn have done is to shaft people over support. As soon as the Cirkus came out Linn stopped supplying the previous bearing. LIke, the next day. So if you have an old LP12 with a worn bearing you cannot replace it like for like. You have no choice but to buy a full Cirkus kit, which will cost you more than the whole deck is worth and change the way it sounds.

And if you have an older LP12 which has actually been used the bearing will be worn. I've seen some really bad ones but people just seem to be ignoring the issue. Out of sight out of mind. So you've got this lovely old LP12, looks fantastic, sounds shite!

I've seen a lot of people buy alternatives to the LP12 and be really happy with the move. No regrets at all. What I'm not seeing is people buying a Technics or whatever and then buying an LP12. I guess they must exist but they are in the minority. Other turntables seem to offer a level of contentment you won't find under a Linn badge.
 
david ellwood said:
similarly few seem to move from a Toyota Corolla to an Aston Martin Vantage.
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That might be a good analogy had you chosen a more realistic comparison. Maybe a Golf-R vs the Aston?

The Aston will be lovely, real pride of ownership, but what about the performance? The Golf is just as fast in a straight line, probably feels a lot faster, and round corners will make the Aston be small in the mirror. But the Golf is a third of the price and overall cost of ownership will be a lot lower.

Doesn't mean the Aston is not offering anything. You've got the badge, leather, it'll be lovely, but if you can live without those things and just want the performance there are much cheaper ways to go that fast.
 
Mr Pig said:
That might be a good analogy had you chosen a more realistic comparison. Maybe a Golf-R vs the Aston?

The Aston will be lovely, real pride of ownership, but what about the performance? The Golf is just as fast in a straight line, probably feels a lot faster, and round corners will make the Aston be small in the mirror. But the Golf is a third of the price and overall cost of ownership will be a lot lower.

Doesn't mean the Aston is not offering anything. You've got the badge, leather, it'll be lovely, but if you can live without those things and just want the performance there are much cheaper ways to go that fast.
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It's always better to have 90% of the performance and be able to look back at it lovingly as you walk away.
 
david ellwood said:
That someone would prefer a Townsend Crock to an LP12 is surprising but to then go on to prefer a Mitchell bOre confirms a very different musical agenda.
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Odd statement, as I had the LP12 before Xerxes before Orbe and the latter lasted longer (alliterative?!). The Orbe since 1995 was and still is a definite contender except in today's price . Very different to the old fruit box, though modern LP12s have probably bridged that tonal gap. There is just so much choice in decks, arms and cart's out there; who'd've believed it a couple or so decades ago?

david ellwood said:
similarly few seem to move from a Toyota Corolla to an Aston Martin Vantage.
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Or, indeed, the reverse ! :)
 
Which modern decks do that early 'airy' LP12 sound better? I miss that a bit, it could potentially be found with an arm swap I suppose.
 
If you're looking for an LP12 I have a late 80s one, pre-Cirkus with Akito Mk1 and Hercules II (33 and 45 rpm), which was fitted by Peter Swain when he serviced it in 2014.

I'm in Brum too - pm me if interested.
 
matt j said:
Which modern decks do that early 'airy' LP12 sound better? I miss that a bit, it could potentially be found with an arm swap I suppose.
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Wouldn't have said that an early LP12 was 'airy'. Pushy & fun for sure. I'd say go for a unipivot arm if you want extra midrange. Wand/ Nima/ Aro
 
I get why the LP12 is so popular, it’s a great looking and sounding deck with a wealth of spares available and upgrade options like nothing else. You can get into ownership for as little as £600 for a serviced and complete deck, which is peanuts for a turntable these days.

Now there are plenty of other choices, more now than ever, and plenty of valid reason for choosing one of those over an LP12, but the LP12 is still a worthy contender for any other deck at a given price point (bearing in mind, there are many priced points for an LP12).

I’m not trying to be a fanboy here by the way, right now, I’m really lusting after an Rega Planar 10, partnered with an Apheta 3, it’d probably be all the deck I’d ever need, especially if they release an MC phono stage between the Aria and Aura styled to match the Planar 10 PSU (go on Rega, you need to do this, we need a phono stage to truly match the P10/Apheta).
 
Dan K said:
Wouldn't have said that an early LP12 was 'airy'. Pushy & fun for sure. I'd say go for a unipivot arm if you want extra midrange. Wand/ Nima/ Aro
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The Nima is a fabulous match with a late pre Cirkus LP12/Lingo, fit a really decent cartridge like the Cadenza Blue and you’ll have one of the very best VFM LP12s out there IMHO.
 
myles said:
It's always better to have 90% of the performance and be able to look back at it lovingly as you walk away.
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I get where you are coming from. I personally much prefer the look and feel of the LP12 over a Rega. The RP10 looks like a big piece of plastic, because it is, and certainly isn't as classy or high qualiy looking as the Linn.

For me it's not 10% better sounding though. It's a seismic shift which makes you painfully aware of how much the LP12 was getting wrong.

matt j said:
Which modern decks do that early 'airy' LP12 sound better? I miss that a bit...
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It's the thing I've been working on with the RP10. The key is realising that it's a distortion or colouration but you can replicate it, to an extent. The unipivot arm is a good idea.
 
Linnfo has it about right. I like the pre Cirkus and I prefer aftermarket unipivot arms to the Linn offerings. Not a fan of the Basik, Akito and Ittok ho hum. Ittok very expensive these days.
I would add that the best value LP12 out there is one you buy used to the spec you want. You then LEAVE IT ALONE and enjoy it for what it is. When you come to sell you won't lose a bean. I've had 4 in the last 20 years, made money on each. However if you join the upgrade ladder you can spend a fortune that you will never see again. If this is what you want, fine, this is a hobby. But you wanted bang per buck on sound and that's not what you will get.
 
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