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Loudspeakers You Wish To Try But Probably Won't Own In This Lifetime

Discussion in 'audio' started by ryder, Oct 23, 2021.

  1. Darren L

    Darren L pfm Member

    My issue with most of the large speaker systems (apart from being downright ugly IMHO) is they require a large room and I've found I personally do not like a large room and much prefer a modest sized and easier to heat room, which in itself has become a bit of an issue as the majority of rural detatched houses in our price range (which is considerable for NI) and in our chosen area have great big horrible open plan living spaces, ego houses I call them.
     
  2. Fatmarley

    Fatmarley Agnostic

  3. Robert

    Robert Tapehead

    Definitely a factor. My room hates most ported boxes since most seem tuned to around 40Hz - bang on the main room mode!
     
  4. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    I’d like to hear them properly as I’ve yet to be convinced by any speakers that fire the bass sideways (NBLs, Audio Physics etc). I’d expect Kef to apply some real research though, so they probably work!

    As ever with this sort of thing it all comes down to taste/context, and I’ve never personally liked huge systems in huge rooms as everything I’ve heard just sounds like a PA system to some degree. There is always a blurring and smearing of information I can hear so clearly on a pair of mini-monitors, Tannoys or ESLs in the near-to-mid-field or a good pair of headphones, plus always so much colouration as the room and the time-domain take such a hold. I think I’m an outlier here as my ‘ultimate reference’ is the studio control room/mastering suite. That is what I want at home. I’m certainly not attempting to create a rock gig!
     
    Darren likes this.
  5. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    Would like to hear the Linkwitz Orion. Lots of obstacles - money, space etc. - but I see that @orangeart has removed a very significant one by making the finished article available in this country, good on him. Maybe some day. Surprised not to see them discussed on here.

    Slightly more realistically I’d like to try the Neumann KH310 with matching subs. But very happy right now with big Tannoys, the size of which rules out casual swapping.
     
  6. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    No matter how good the speakers, that one is an acoustic disaster
     
  7. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    500 Hz seems way too high to crossover side facing drivers. They must still be directional up there
     
    Fatmarley likes this.
  8. John Phillips

    John Phillips pfm Member

    I have only compared reflex loudspeakers in my room (26 Hz main mode) with 40 Hz tuning and 23 Hz tuning. Here, the lower frequency ones don't seem to excite room modes any differently to the higher, at least from REW measurement. However the bass from the ones with the lower frequency tuning (bigger drivers, of course and lower Q too) sounds like it has little of what I think people describe as "overhang" - certainly much less deviation from realistic.

    I assume for now that's because most music I listen to has little content below 23 Hz but a lot more below 40 Hz.

    This is why (as I posted above) I am interested in listening to PMCs "ATL" sort-of-transmission-line bass alignment with larger drivers than their typical consumer offerings. From a couple of sources it seems to provide rather broadband port output in support of the main bass driver instead of the more usual narrow band port output. I would love to hear that and have an informed opinion about it.
     
  9. cnocmoy10

    cnocmoy10 pfm Member

    Wilson Sabrina X in Bugatti Blue or ATC SCM 20 PSLT in Burr Poplar.
    Fingers crossed The Lottery Gods read this forum!
     
  10. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    Even more of an aesthetic disaster!
     
  11. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Yes, my guess would be they are deliberately trying for a ‘wide’ effect or something. I have a feeling I’d not get on with it at all as it has to impact the time domain with directional upper-bass/lower-mid stuff actually reaching you via a wall-bounce rather than directly. I guess a lot depends on the overlap from the front driver, but that would have all manner of phase/comb implications. I’ve certainly come to the conclusion I want everything coming from one point as much as is possible and after living the past decade or more with a true point-source in the main system and sealed mini-monitors elsewhere I seem to becoming less and less tolerant of large multi-driver systems even if they are all on the front baffle. I just hear something obviously ‘wrong’ with that presentation. Hard to put it into words, but it isn’t there on a Tannoy, ESL63, mini-monitor, single full-range driver etc.
     
  12. jamesd

    jamesd pfm Member

    True or not, I’ve never met a single person that cares about the benefits of proper speaker positioning or dispersion patterns. My wife and kids seem as happy listening to an Amazon Echo a room away as I am when vice-gripped in the sweet spot.
     
    gustav_errata and mega lord like this.
  13. nostromo

    nostromo pfm Member

    Yes, I was given that impression at a long demo at KJ West One a few years ago. I actually got them to play Welcome to the Machine all the way through at high levels (they have a cellar room) truly impressive.

    They reduced the demo pair down to about 60K....but I only had a budget of 2K!
     
    darrenyeats and tonerei like this.
  14. darrenyeats

    darrenyeats pfm Member

    I respect PMC speakers and I understand why many people love them.

    I dislike how PMC market the transmission line (TL) thing. It's fair to say they're not true TLs i.e for bass roll-off and transient response. The theory is a true TL acts like a sealed box, but in practice I don't know of any speaker sold as a TL like that.

    IB1S FR has extended bass. But it drops off quickly, not like a sealed box - you can see the sealed, tiny SCM7 even puts out more at 20Hz.
    https://www.stereophile.com/content/pmc-ib-1s-loudspeaker-measurements
    https://www.stereophile.com/content/atv-scm7-v3-loudspeaker-measurements

    From the other end of the stick, your active ATCs act better than a typical ported reflex. Like some Tannoys, the roll-off and transient response is between classic reflex and sealed box.

    Of course you could demo, enjoy, prefer etc. PMCs for other reasons.
     
    John Phillips likes this.
  15. tonerei

    tonerei pfm Member

    Given your budget probably no advantage to know you could snaffle a pair for a much better discount then that :) The adjustment south had no positive impact on the potential for me getting a pair either!
     
    nostromo and darrenyeats like this.
  16. tuga

    tuga Legal Alien

    In my opinion and experience, the advantages of a point-source are mostly reflected in the imaging capabilities of the loudspeaker.
    Because full-range, low distortion, point-source is technically difficult/impossible to achieve both designers and consumers have to choose which side-effects they're willing to put up with.

    The ideal speaker would be wide dynamic range, full audio-range, point-source and time-coherent, with a flat on-axis and smooth off-axis anechoic response.
    Directivity characteristics, on the other hand, are a matter of taste: some prefer dipole, others forward narrow directivity, many wide directivity and a few onmi-directional. As far as I know only the BeoLab 50 and 90 gives the user an option to change the directivity charateristics of the speaker.
     
    darrenyeats likes this.
  17. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Largely agree, though I do think it is more than imaging. I often hear crossovers and the effects of spaced drivers more as a incoherence and diffuse/blurred nature or edge which I suspect is in the phase/time domain. Think of a tall line array or whatever and picture what happens with time vs. listening height (also plot the reflections!). It is way more than imaging that gets screwed up.

    PS I’d really like to hear the big B&Os. Likely not for me (just way too far from Right To Repair etc) but they are very interesting things for sure.
     
    darrenyeats and tuga like this.
  18. RJohan

    RJohan pfm Member

    I'm with you. In a true TL, when we reach the end of the line all energy has been absorbed and it will make no difference if the end is open or closed.

    I think B&W's original Nautilus behaves like that. Possibly not in the bass section, it might be IB with a fancy look, but the other sections is long enough to absorb all energy. Or?
     
    darrenyeats likes this.
  19. Gervais Cote

    Gervais Cote Predator

    Multi-driver speakers have one problem in common : if two or more drivers are supposed to reproduce the same sound at the same frequency, they mostly will fail. To be on the exact same tone, they would need to have the exact same moving mass, exact same voice coil power and exact same spider and surround restriction which is pretty much impossible to achieve. These are basic laws of physics and real life manufacturing processes facts.
     
    tuga, darrenyeats and Woodface like this.
  20. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    It also looks horrible
     
    Darren L likes this.

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