Living in London

[mandryka]

I work next to St Pauls, I mostly use St Pauls (Central Line, try to avoid), Bank (DLR) or Blackfriars (District Line). Sometimes I'll use the Barbican station which is a 7 mins walk.

In that case, one trick is this. If you choose to live very close to St Pauls then fine. But if you have a substantial commute at peak times it will be difficult to find a seat. For this reason some people prefer to live at the end of a tube or train line - that way you can always get a seat in the morning, and in the evening the train will eventually thin out of people.

You will get used to the central line. Bank is on the Northern Line too, as is Barbican, which you will also get used to!

 

[lagavullin10y]

I'd go with this. Yes, take a full time job, but be employed and resident in your home nation of Holland. You have already said this is where you do most of your work. Then travel as necessary to London as your job dictates. In this day and age there is less and less obligation to be in a particular office on any particular day. I have an old schoolfriend who is a very senior director in an engineering comapny. He lives in Madrid, he attends offices all over the world and especially in Switzerland, Germany and England.

It is one of the options we have, but it is an unknown change within the organization - I'm exploring it currently as well.

 

[mandryka]

Another question to consider is this. How important is it for you to live in the exciting centre, close to theatres and international restaurants (e.g. Marylebone, Kensington, Fitzrovia.) Or will you be happy to live in a neighbourhood less central but still vibrant (eg Belsize Park, Clapham.) Or do you want peace and quiet, a garden, good state schools nearby? (Eg Putney, Highgate) Or do you want safe, gritty and urban (Balham, Tufnell Park) . . .

 

[lagavullin10y]

In that case, one trick is this. If you choose to live very close to St Pauls then fine. But if you have a substantial commute at peak times it will be difficult to find a seat. For this reason some people prefer to live at the end of a tube or train line - that way you can always get a seat in the morning, and in the evening the train will eventually thin out of people.

You will get used to the central line. Bank is on the Northern Line too, as is Barbican, which you will also get used to!

I like the District Line, it is a bit less busy than the others apparently. Having a seat in the morning is great. Darth Vader suggested Wimbledon / Raynes Park and since I have a colleague living there, it is a good option to further explore.

 

[Ponty]

If you work at St Paul’s, look at the City Thameslink. Still awful but not as deeply unpleasant as the tube. West Hampstead is nice or if you want to be out of the smog, Harpenden.

 

[madmike]

We lived in Istead Rise, Kent for 8 years while I worked at Gravesham Council and then Bexley London Borough. It was a modern estate in the 80s, probably not viewed as modern now though....how time flies. You have a choice of commute to the big smoke from Meopham or Gravesend. We had a 3 bed detached in the early 80s for £40,000. I think prices have gone up a bit since then. Just looked on rightmove, 4 bed detached for £500,000.

 

[mandryka]

I like the District Line, it is a bit less busy than the others apparently. Having a seat in the morning is great. Darth Vader suggested Wimbledon / Raynes Park and since I have a colleague living there, it is a good option to further explore.

I live in SW19! It is a good option. It is very well served for transport (trains, tubes and there’s easy access to the M25 and to Gatwick)

Raynes Park has no tube.


My house is 10 minutes walk from Wimbledon station and 10 minutes walk from South Wimbledon station, in a place called Merton Park. I used to commute to Barbican on the Northern Line from South Wimbledon - I found it easier than the District line or British Rail, but you have that option and you may feel differently, it would take 40 minutes door to door.

There are excellent state and private primary and secondary schools.

You have four kids, so I guess you’d like 5 bedrooms. That will be possible renting and buying, but four bedrooms is much more common. It will be hard to get five bedrooms anywhere in London.

 

[stevec67]

Another question to consider is this. How important is it for you to live in the exciting centre, close to theatres and international restaurants (e.g. Marylebone, Kensington, Fitzrovia.) Or will you be happy to live in a neighbourhood less central but still vibrant (eg Belsize Park, Clapham.) Or do you want peace and quiet, a garden, good state schools nearby? (Eg Putney, Highgate) Or do you want safe, gritty and urban (Balham, Tufnell Park) . . .

With 4 children, unless he is a Braziliannaire his chances of living in Kensington or Fitzrovia are less than nil. Also, I've never heard Clapham described as "vibrant". It was a very ordinary suburb when I had friends there, albeit this was 30 years ago.

 

[mandryka]

With 4 children, unless he is a Braziliannaire his chances of living in Kensington or Fitzrovia are less than nil. Also, I've never heard Clapham described as "vibrant". It was a very ordinary suburb when I had friends there, albeit this was 30 years ago.

Clapham’s changed over the past 30 years, especially the parts on the Northern Line - it’s more like how Camden Town used to be. I dislike it intensely, but for kids it’s a real party town. Balham, which 30 years ago was full of prostitutes, has now become a very trendy and bohemian place to live, and Clapham Junction has become very gentrified, amazingly!

He could find something at the Worlds End end of Kings Road. It’s true that when I think of Soho and Fitzrovia, there aren’t many big houses there!

 

[mandryka]

The post above has made me realise that apart from Wimbledon, another very good neighbourhood to explore is around Nothcoat Road Clapham Junction. No tube, but Clapham Junction train station is exceptionally good (I think it may be the busiest station in Europe for trains arriving and departing.) Good primary schools at least, excellent shops and restaurants, young and bohemian ambience, expensive but not impossible, large houses.It has a reputation as a good area for foodies, and indeed my favourite Italian restaurant is there (Numero Uno!)

When I moved to Wimbledon I was tempted to go Northcoat Road, but I decided on Wimbledon because at the time I needed to be able to get to Guildford and Portsmouth, which is a very straightforward drive from Wimbledon.

 

[stevec67]

Clapham’s changed over the past 30 years, especially the parts on the Northern Line - it’s more like how Camden Town used to be.

Yes, I imagine so. London especially has changed. People say "Oh it would have been great to have been in at the bottom and bought a big house in (say) Hoxton in the 80s. Well, yes, looked at from this end of the telescope, but 30 years ago the pre-gentrified areas were bloody horrible. It's happened in Leeds, albeit to a lesser extent. Chapeltown is now a nice place to be, 20 years ago it was largely no-go for whites after dark, and sometime before that it was Yorkshire Ripper territory. Live round there? No thanks. Now, sure, but to have been there at the start you would have needed to spend 20 of those 30 years in a bloody horrible area getting 2 cars stolen a year and burgled every 6 months.

 

[lagavullin10y]

Too many moons have passed since I lived in London (swinging sixties!), but your interesting enquiry and subsequent advice was interesting reading. You used the word 'imply' with regard to having to relocate. If your family has a settled life, school(s) and job in Nederland and you can get round this IR35 reg. whilst keeping the status quo and having that easy 3 day commute, don't let the sense of adventure in moving to England cloud your reason.

Schools may be free, but accommodation (esp. if you're currently an owner/occupier) plus disruption (in education esp.) may sap your finances. In these uncertain financial times, possibly it's a better choice of the devil you know. Rather bland and cautionary advice, but maybe today's climate is not the time to head into the unknown (as regards circumstances, not London and environs).

You have touched the full complexity of the situation. It is blurred for sure. We are very much settled and since 1.5 year, everything is going well. We had a challenge to get the kids in good schools but unlike other people in our village we decided to send all the kids to different schools where they fit best. And this worked out very well. Kid #1 is in what we call Categoriaal Gymasium, a kind of traditional Grammar School where he gets the full package on a high pace. Kid #2 is moving to a different school this summer but since she is the most sensitive kid, the disruption for her would be relatively small. Kid #3 is doing well and for all kids apply that they can go back where they are now or should go to this summer.We are blessed that they all have a good mind. We found the key for them all and we are confident that they will survive and that a year - or longer - in a different environment would actually be beneficial for there vision on things. I'd like them to understand that the world is so much bigger than our local town. (duh!)

Looking at my own career, I started around 2000 working for an American software company. Had great times there and having had a very troubled school career, it was the first time I discovered all the energy you can feel when enjoying something. The company changed and therefore I started contracting. This network I have is now about 20 years old and it is time to move on. Every now and then I get contacted by headhunters for either Salesforce or Servicenow - where most of my ex-colleagues are, but something in me resists to this. It is more of the same. I found that it is difficult to change being a contractor despite that contractors should have more freedom. For some reason I always end up with the same assignment, senior developer / architect (as they call it) coaching youngsters writing code based on my designs. I understand this trick quite well and I have learned in the years to understand the question before it is being asked so I'm now quite effective in what I do. Long story short, I need something to change. Keep what I like and move with my soft- and software skills to e.g. bigger projects or different software. Given the expected economic decline, being employee of a company might not be a bad idea.

As a third point, I would need to give up my secondary job as being an organist and my wife her job as doctor - but thats entirely her call and she has the full final vote in all this.

Yes it is blurred indeed.

 

[Bob McC]

Yes, I imagine so. London especially has changed. People say "Oh it would have been great to have been in at the bottom and bought a big house in (say) Hoxton in the 80s. Well, yes, looked at from this end of the telescope, but 30 years ago the pre-gentrified areas were bloody horrible. It's happened in Leeds, albeit to a lesser extent. Chapeltown is now a nice place to be, 20 years ago it was largely no-go for whites after dark, and sometime before that it was Yorkshire Ripper territory. Live round there? No thanks. Now, sure, but to have been there at the start you would have needed to spend 20 of those 30 years in a bloody horrible area getting 2 cars stolen a year and burgled every 6 months.

now you just get knifed...

 

[jackbarron]

I work next to St Pauls, I mostly use St Pauls (Central Line, try to avoid), Bank (DLR) or Blackfriars (District Line). Sometimes I'll use the Barbican station which is a 7 mins walk.

I used to live an easy walk away from St Paul's. Property to rent or buy close to the Cathedral in Blackfriars, Farringdon, Barbican, Smithfield, Fleet Street, Clerkenwell and Bank is really quite expensive nowadays. But I guess you already know this.

Jack

 

[Thorn]

Never mind John Major, Raymond Briggs and me also went there!!

It must have been a technical school. Clearly it didn't teach English grammar.

 

[Alex S]

We have organs in London. I’m working on a lovely one from Gospel Oak right now. We also have a few doctors and will probably need a lot more of them soon.

 

[Barrymagrec]

Never mind John Major, Raymond Briggs and me also went there!!

A friend of mine was there at the same time as John Major - he tells a story of him which could not possibly be posted on this forum.

 

[blossomchris]

If you work at St Paul’s, look at the City Thameslink. Still awful but not as deeply unpleasant as the tube. West Hampstead is nice or if you want to be out of the smog, Harpenden.

Harpenden maid drag gets a lot of traffic hold ups, and most of these vehicles are great over sized tractor like 4x4's, so hardly clean air. I do agree Thameslink is one of the better lines for commuting.

Bloss

 

[Seanm]

Yes, I imagine so. London especially has changed. People say "Oh it would have been great to have been in at the bottom and bought a big house in (say) Hoxton in the 80s. Well, yes, looked at from this end of the telescope, but 30 years ago the pre-gentrified areas were bloody horrible. It's happened in Leeds, albeit to a lesser extent. Chapeltown is now a nice place to be, 20 years ago it was largely no-go for whites after dark, and sometime before that it was Yorkshire Ripper territory. Live round there? No thanks. Now, sure, but to have been there at the start you would have needed to spend 20 of those 30 years in a bloody horrible area getting 2 cars stolen a year and burgled every 6 months.

London might be an exception: it's always felt pretty safe to me. I lived near enough to Hoxton when it was just starting to undergo gentrification and it was actually a nice place to live, no aggro. Although I've come to realise that as a white middle-aged man I basically live in a different city to young people and especially young black people.

Anyway, re the OP, Lewisham is officially the best borough in London and it's easy to get to Blackfriars from parts of it. Affordable and some good schools. A bit rough around the edges, some leafy spots. Poorer cousin to nearby Greenwich.

The different areas of London are all very distinct from one another so worth doing some research and making visits. Londoners, by Craig Taylor, is worth a read: it's a collection of modern accounts of the city by people who live here. The one that sticks in my mind dwells on the basic crappiness of London life: the author calls London Londin, after Londis, the crap local shop franchise. That's definitely one side of the city.

 

[lagavullin10y]

We have organs in London. I’m working on a lovely one from Gospel Oak right now.

You absolutely have, but I'm still not used to these instruments. They are so different to what I'm used to. British organs seem to be build to accompany the choir and play a loud recessional - preferably some piece by Vierne or Widor. My personal preference is to play renaissance / baroque on period instruments, or copies of instruments from that time. Instruments where you push one key and because of the timbre of the related organpipe everything shifts back to the year 1600. That magic is what I don't experience on British organs (yet). I do deeply respect the choral tradition though and there are not many things in my life which can elevate me to metaphysical levels like an evensong.

Regardless of all this moving to London happens, if you have access to a good instrument I would really appreciate to get a better insight how these organs work and be able to play on it on one of my evenings there.