advertisement


Listening techniques to evaluate high-end hi-fi systems

There's only one party telling the truth here- your own senses. There could be a sting in the tail though- when my right ear went a few years ago, piano was the first thing I noticed 'sounding terrible' at concerts. If the luxury system had great veracity and higher SPLs that would be a possible cause ( was the dem'er a lot younger than your good self?)
 
Your own senses are only right if they have a reference point that was known to be correct and right. If your past experience was based on flawed system you believe to be good, then a system that removes those flaws will be judged as inferior.

Sometimes it can a while to recalibrate when a life long flaw has become the norm.... Ie the sound of particular speaker or turntable. I think forums are a clear demonstration of that by the polarised views that pop.

"Yes I thought there was audible distortion in both the midrange, and the bass on all the music played. Some of the music was previously unheard by me. Everything was set-up very carefully in a dedicated and well-designed listening environment, and was sounding very good, according to the demo-et."

Distorted on all frequencies ?
Did it get worse with increased volume?.. If yes would perhaps be a room issue, so perhaps it wasn't such a good environment.
 
There's two possible outcomes here:

1. The system was in some way faulty, and the track was showing up the fault
2. The system was resolving more than you are used to, and the distortion was on the recording

Both are possible, especially in a fairly dense mix. However, if you heard distortion on a track that you hitherto knew well, you will be sensitive to that distortion the next time you hear that track. If you didn't pick it up on the next system you played, it was probably a problem related to the equipment, not the recording. A good salesperson would have picked up on this and either attempted to resolve the problem or admit defeat and move on. Instead this one blamed the way you listen.

I'd ask what you are supposed to listen for, just on the off-chance that they were actually on the right track (some spend so long listening to hi-fi, they forget what music sounds like). But generally, I'd find a dealer that wasn't so friggin' patronising, and tell the first dealer precisely why you went in search of someone better.
 
The main part is that all the musics clear of the emotion and the rhythm with a good energy of the system. Ideally the adaptation and the performance of devices and surrounding walls should be able to be estimated in the usual place of listening according to the préférences.
 
Tony L said:
Judging from the multi-track list in post #20 it's going through a Leslie cab (for those who haven't played with one that's a amp / speaker combo with a motorised rotating treble unit, see Wiki).
Click to expand...

Can't say I'm getting much of the Leslie effect(in the way its unmistakeable on a Toots & the Maytals track say)but it's always sounded to these ears as coming through a miked up cab of some description. I'd have a few questions about a mid fi system that made it sound like a real piano though;)
 
cooky1257 said:
Can't say I'm getting much of the Leslie effect(in the way its unmistakeable on a Toots & the Maytals track say)but it's always sounded to these ears as coming through a miked up cab of some description. I'd have a few questions about a mid fi system that made it sound like a real piano though;)
Click to expand...

Is it possible for someone to define high-end vs mid fi system. For me that latter conjures up a midi system.

Is it just on price points or something else? So what are the criteria to be able to put systems into a box?

Cheers,

DV
 
Darth Vader said:
Is it possible for someone to define high-end vs mid fi system. For me that latter conjures up a midi system.

Is it just on price points or something else? So what are the criteria to be able to put systems into a box?

Cheers,

DV
Click to expand...

No idea. Maybe 'less high end' would've been a better description, ask Bub.
 
Tony L said:
Judging from the multi-track list in post #20 it's going through a Leslie cab (for those who haven't played with one that's a amp / speaker combo with a motorised rotating treble unit, see Wiki).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link Tony.

Bub have a listen to the sample of the Leslie playing in Chorale mode and let us know if that sounds like the distortion you mention.
 
Disbeliever said:
Trust your own ears. Piano & soprano voice are best test for evaluating equipment, if they sound right then invariably everything else will be correct. Classical music is best for evaluation.
Click to expand...

If you listen to classical music sure. But if classical sounds good that doesn't prove it will play punk at high volumes in a realistic fashion. I have heard plenty of systems at shows that sound great with plinkity plonk music or classical but on other genres it all falls apart. An example would be omni MBLs

A hifi can only add its own distortion. It can however fail to render accurately what is on the disk which might very well include intentional distortion

I would suggest that female voice is the sternest test. The human ear has evolved to be most discerning with human speech and any short comings of the system will be most obvious here if there is any distortion being added
 
Darth Vader said:
Is it possible for someone to define high-end vs mid fi system. For me that latter conjures up a midi system.

Is it just on price points or something else? So what are the criteria to be able to put systems into a box?

Cheers,

DV
Click to expand...

High End means high price , you can not change the laws of physics, my system could probably be described as mid-fi but I have not heard a better one irrespective of price and believe me I have tried, e.g. the IMO over hyped for SQ Devialet and expensive PMC speakers etc. all auditioned in my listening room.
 
Tony L said:
FWIW if I'm in any doubt as to whether any 'distortion' I'm hearing is on the track or not (a huge 'if' with things as heavily processed and smothered in FX as the Massive Attack example) I'll use headphones. I have a pair of Sennheiser HD-600s and in matters like this I trust them over *any* system as they entirely remove the room, the crossover and any multi-driver time / phase distortion from the equation. As my own interest is vintage audio kit I've found them very useful indeed when fault-diagnosing etc. I've even got a Can Opener box that enables me to connect them to the speaker outputs of the amp so I can establish if what I think I'm hearing is in the amp or speaker (useful with vintage tube amps). In the overwhelming majority of cases issues where I've felt were distortions were in the system they were actually clearly present on the source material via the cans, just highlighted or emphasised by the system in a slightly less than balanced manner. That's when it all starts to get confusing!
Click to expand...

I agree with Tony. I always whip out the cans when I hear something that sounds like distortion (and worry that my speakers may be damaged). 99% of the time I discover there is distortion or noise on the recording that I had not previously noticed.
 
Blzebub said:
During a recent high end demo, a track I'm very familiar with (Teardrop by Massive Attack) and have heard innumerable times, was played through a "top of the range" hi-fi system. There was pretty obvious distortion of the piano notes in the intro. I pointed it out, and we played the same track on a "mid-level" (but still extremely expensive) system in an adjacent demo room. This system played the same piano notes quite clearly, with no obvious distortion. It also sounded miles better all round.

I was informed that the top system was, in fact, better than the mid-tier system, and the real problem was with me: I don't know how to listen to music using the correct techniques.

Hard to know where to go from there! A little frustrating as I think these people are not total clowns. What can you do? Walk away shaking the head ruefully is the option I've chosen. Wallet is intact, and will remain firmly shut where these people are concerned.

I'm not going to go into specifics as to the systems involved, and it doesn't really matter what they were, but I do find it rather unusual to be told that, in effect, black is white, and I'm colour-blind. I'd always thought "the customer is always right".

Are there special techniques and if so, what are they?
Click to expand...

Bull$h!t from the "professionals" IMO, a system either sounds good to you or it doesn't irrespective of price. I can't see how you can learn listening techniques that allow a system that previously sounded worse than another to sound better. I have heard some expensive systems sound shockingly bad, I heard a system with Tom Evans amps and speakers and it sounded broken to me, the owner loved it though. To me that proved that we are all different, there is no right or wrong. The top end system you heard didn't suit you and the mid range one did, nothing wrong with that.
 
linnfomaniac83 said:
Bull$h!t from the "professionals" IMO, a system either sounds good to you or it doesn't irrespective of price. I can't see how you can learn listening techniques that allow a system that previously sounded worse than another to sound better. I have heard some expensive systems sound shockingly bad, I heard a system with Tom Evans amps and speakers and it sounded broken to me, the owner loved it though. To me that proved that we are all different, there is no right or wrong. The top end system you heard didn't suit you and the mid range one did, nothing wrong with that.
Click to expand...


CORRECT: I totally agree
 
Disbeliever said:
High End means high price , you can not change the laws of physics, my system could probably be described as mid-fi but I have not heard a better one irrespective of price and believe me I have tried, e.g. the IMO over hyped for SQ Devialet and expensive PMC speakers etc. all auditioned in my listening room.
Click to expand...

Now what does that really mean? For someone on minimum wage that could mean £1K or less. For someone else say £5K and then for another it might be £100K. See what I mean.

The OP uses these meaningless phrases so we have no idea what Bub is blubbing on about do we? If he had said summat like a £30K vinyl front end a £5K phono stage etc we would have an idea about that sort of kit but it might just be a £2k DAC and some amps and speakers like for example from Naim.

Or then it might be top esoterica where the price goes through the roof.........

Cheers,

DV

PS The first piece I put on with new kit is church organ music - summat from Bach.
 
Darth Vader said:
Is it possible for someone to define high-end vs mid fi system. For me that latter conjures up a midi system.

Is it just on price points or something else? So what are the criteria to be able to put systems into a box?

Cheers,

DV
Click to expand...

Any definition is arbitrary, but one system cost >£20,000, and the other was more than double that.
 
YNWOAN said:
If James can't describe the specific distortion he heard, and he seems reluctant/unable to, then the rest is mute. A very nice chap once pointed out 'distortion' in a demo we were both attending, I couldn't hear any and when I asked him for clarification it turned out that what he was actually hearing was the close miked sound of the plectrum moving on the nylon strings of the guitar...
Click to expand...

Moot; mute.

It's hard to describe, but it sounded like some sort of resonance in the midrange, perhaps. The piano notes weren't really recognisable as originating from a piano.
 
Jek said:
I would suggest that female voice is the sternest test. The human ear has evolved to be most discerning with human speech and any short comings of the system will be most obvious here if there is any distortion being added
Click to expand...

I agree vocals are the best test, but male vocal rather than female, as there will be more than one driver and a crossover involved.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top