Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
Nothing to do with marketing then?
It might also be worth recognising that a number of other TT manufacturers are still about..
Linn
- Thread starter robbyd
- Start date
Nothing to do with marketing then?
It might also be worth recognising that a number of other TT manufacturers are still about..
Everything to do with everything. Not much use building a good product if you can't sell it. Not much use building a good sounding turntable if you can't support it ten years down the line or if it's not reliable.
Bottom line is the Linn got it on the nail, gold star right. That might piss you off but suck it up because it's just a fact.
dadgad
pfm Member
Interesting, in my understanding/experience (working with start-ups and University spin-out companies) the UK patent office does require the patent to prove an inventive step 'An invention shall be taken to involve an inventive step if it is not obvious to a person skilled in the art, having regard to any matter which forms part of the state of the art'. I'm willing to accept correction from first hand experience. My quote comes from the UK Government patents web-site here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/manual-of-patent-practice-mopp/section-3-inventive-step
Richard Lines
pfm Member
Slightly off-topic but both it and the Linn of Tummel can be quite interesting kayaking opportunities.............
Regards
Richard
That is why Patent Offices search, as clearly stated in my OP - they don't/can't take your word for it.
They will search by keyword and, the last time that I applied, provide a list of what "sounds like" prior art, and ask the applicant to decide whether what they are applying for, is really novel.
All that said, you can apply to patent anything that you like, except perpetual motion machines.
matteo.renesto
pfm Member
Joe
pfm Member
I don't understand the aggressive nature of some of the posts here......where in his comments , or anywhere else , does Mullardman claim to be 'pissed off". ?
And again...everything on here is just an opinion so.... Linn got it right in your opinion ...not in fact.
paulbysea
pfm Member
Why do so many if not all threads about Linn or Naim end up with people taking entrenched views? Once you get to the level of Linn and Naim products you don't get bad hi-fi, you might get a sound presentation that does work for you. As a Linn & Naim owner of over 40 years, I am fully aware that there are equally good alternatives for similar money and I have listened to some of them, but none so far have tempted me away yet. This doesn't mean my kit is the best, just that it is right for me. If you don't like Linn, no need to knock it with disparaging comments and also no need to take offence when people dislike the LP12 etc.
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
I'm not remotely pissed off. Just expressing my opinions based on my experience.
Linn got the marketing right and also employed some pretty dirty tricks via their dealerships. They most definitely didn't get the LP12 right at the start, as witnessed by the endless series of 'upgrades' required to get a 'perfect' product even more 'perfect'.
Lots...ranging from well sorted Thorens TD124/Garrard 301/401, Well Tempered, Original Roksan Xerxes, Pink Triangle etc, but mostly Michell.. Gyrodec and my present Orbe.
I'm not being aggressive and I don't mean just him, I mean anyone who is unhappy about the success of the LP12.
In my opinion, that's a fairly dumb statement on every level? Despite what many people today would like to believe, facts do exist and the LP12 being a successful product, is one. Linn got it right, this is a fact, not an opinion.
I will add my comments to those of @Mullardman , FWIW.................... (probably rather little.................)
I own a Pink Linnked LP12, and have done so for 30 years or so, I cannot comment directly, but the few that know the Pink Linnk rate it very, very highly.
With a tonearm in the £1-2K bracket and a cart' around £2K, I think you will be making smaller than tiny improvements (aka changes) by spending more on anything.
I have only owned 3 TT - the most engaging was a PT1 - that just grabbed you feet and set them tapping or dancing, but compared to an LP12 was like comparing (less extreme) the Notre Dame organ, to the very best fairground/Wurlitzer organ - horses for courses. The PT1 was/is the fairground organ - totally, amzingly joyous. Want to see into music further.............................?
My preference is for a NAS deck - my Hyperspace. It does not beat my LP12 in anything but the sheer involvement and pleasure of longer listening. That has a Hadcock and Schroeder on it. Cart is a Lyra.
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
You're right, he was wrong, I was right. You can't patent the obvious. Case closed ;-)
Totally and absolutely and utterly not so.
Velcro. (Out of patent now and generally called hook and loop.)
It was based on how burrs attach to fur and clothing. Dead obvious.
There are many, many other examples.
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
I don't think velcro is obvious at all. It's surprising that it's possible and that it works so well and so repeatably. It's a great example of ingenuity and inventiveness, including the technique of production. As dagdad pointed out, official statements by the UK IPO make it clear that "an invention shall be taken to involve an inventive step if it is not obvious to a person skilled in the art". Without that inventive step, your application will be rejected, or at least should be. They make mistakes, certainly, but the rule endures the exceptions. It may be less rigorous in some other countries, but in most countries the principle against the obvious is usually there.
Define "obvious" then.
I have also answered the comment from @dadgad which is inaccurate, above.
I have worked in R&D, in several different manufacturing industries, for over 30 years................................ You are out of your depth.
My last patent application, ultimately withdrawn as the cost would probably not have been covered, was for an automatic feeder using an escapement mechanism - totally bloody obvious to me, but the patent attourney reckoned that it was patentable after he did a search.
I have also answered the comment from @dadgad which is inaccurate, above.
I have worked in R&D, in several different manufacturing industries, for over 30 years................................ You are out of your depth.
My last patent application, ultimately withdrawn as the cost would probably not have been covered, was for an automatic feeder using an escapement mechanism - totally bloody obvious to me, but the patent attourney reckoned that it was patentable after he did a search.
Weecrackpot
Frank made me do it.
For me a Oracle Delphi mk2/Zeta/Koetsu and then a Townshend Rock 2/RB300/Audiotechnica made me question why I own a Linn.
tpetsch
...The rhythm has Control
Linn hasn't been in the turntable business for around 30 years now, they're in the wooden plinth & lucrative niche market they created of never ending various parts "upgrades" that fit inside it business. ...In fact, I'd call it more like beating a dead horse business.
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
I'm sure I am out of my depth, but the IPO says "not obvious" and someone on a forum says they are wrong. I think the burden of proof is with you.
I don't have to define "obvious" because it was not I who made and published the rules. The IPO defines obvious when the patent officer uses the word to reject a patent application. That was the sense in which I used the word. That's the definition I accept in this use.
When I applied for my patent, in initial discussions with my patent lawyer we addressed the question of obviousness and quickly decided that my invention was not obvious, so we moved on to the next matter. We should do that now.
Locheeboy
pfm Member
"Linn hasn't been in the turntable business for around 30 years now, they're in the wooden plinth & lucrative niche market they created of never ending various parts "upgrades" that fit inside it business. ...In fact, I'd call it more like beating a dead horse business."
BRAVO !
BRAVO !
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
Arthur K came round to my friend's place to demo the Pinnk Linnk many years ago. We were both impressed and my pal bought it, though to be fair he did have some reliability issues with it. He moved on from the LP12 years ago ...to an SME30.