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Linn vs. Naim

sq225917 said:
Mescalito, good to see you've never worked as a sales rep. I know no successful rep who sells like that, it's just a put off.
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I have been in sales (arguably we are all salesmen to a degree) and I agree you shouldn't just denigrate the competition. However you often will need to directly compare just so you can highlight where you think your product is superior. I have sold stuff that makes even the highest end HiFi seem like small change and we did direct comparison demo's and try to emphasise the weakness of the competition. This certainly can be seen as "having a go"

At the end of the day, people buy from people so if you don't like the salesman, it matters little how good his product is, you rarely purchase it from them.
 
Colin Wonfor said:
Come on chaps the Naim folk a really really nice people and would help anybody, give them another chance. They are always fair on there opinions they never run anybody down or cheat them and always have a open mind.
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Hmmm - not sure I'd agree with that, based on the past year or two of the Naim forum.
For example, if I said that the Naim DAC was very impressive but not very enjoyable, or that a certain product sounded better without an additional power supply, or that I preferred a less expensive amp than the more expensive equivalent (all of which have been true for me in the past), they'd pretty soon find someone to jump on me.

By the way Colin, I used to own a Magnum IA125 in 1985 and loved it - not sure the 42/110 I replaced it with was better, but it's sure given me 25 years of heartache.
 
I may not be a huge fan of the Naim forum (I've nothing against it, it's just not really my thing), but I've had quite a lot of dealings with the actual Nam folk and have always found them very cooperative and charming (and very reluctant to say negative things about other companies).
 
sonddek said:
Define "joke".
Define "circuit", define "reside" etc.

You are making what Gilbert Ryle called a 'category error'.
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Well if you don't know what makes Linn so good (other than you prefer it) why not just say so?
 
Cav said:
Well if you don't know what makes Linn so good (other than you prefer it) why not just say so?
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I can only repeat what I made abundantly clear earlier: I find tunes (melodies, harmonies) and rhythms easier to follow and understand with my Linn amps than with my previous Naim amps.

The category error was to ask to see the "musicality circuit". That's like asking to see the university after you've been shown the colleges, faculties, libraries and sports facilities.

If you wasted your time checking the thread you would find that it was not me who claimed that one amp had more "musicality" than another. Someone else introduced that word. I just said one amp enabled me to follow and understand tunes and rhythms more easily than the other.

Preferring a piece of kit is a personal thing and might be due to its matching your furniture. Forgive me for being more specific than just saying "I like it". I shall try to be less articulate in future ;-)
 
Why bitch about which brand is better? They are both exceptionally good brands. Fortunately there are other exceptionally good brands that lead to musical enjoyment.
 
darrylfunk said:
if you have heard the piece of music before your brain will help you improve it....
if you had never heard the doctor who theme and you heard it first on the drainpipes you'd think 'meh'!
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I disagree. I think the rhythm and melody of the piece would still manage to express its particular mood and tension if I had never heard the original. The fact that we can instantly recognise what the piece is says a lot about what is essential to a piece of music. The drainpipe family has approximated the timbre of the original piece very very loosely, but they have nailed the tune and rhythms with great accuracy. It wouldn't be musically enjoyable the other way around.

There is a reason why traditional musical notation specifies melody, harmony, tempo and rhythm in great detail but says very little about timbre. If timbre were crucial then a xylophone and a tuba would not be able each to play identifiably the same piece of music. I'm not saying timbre has no importance, I'm just saying that making timbre a secondary concern when allotting funds for hi-fi is a viable approach. I find my ear can adjust for and "hear through" colouration or timbral defects, but it can't hear through, for instance, wow.
 
sonddek said:
I disagree. I think the rhythm and melody of the piece would still manage to express its particular mood and tension if I had never heard the original. The fact that we can instantly recognise what the piece is says a lot about what is essential to a piece of music. The drainpipe family has approximated the timbre of the original piece very very loosely, but they have nailed the tune and rhythms with great accuracy. It wouldn't be musically enjoyable the other way around.

There is a reason why traditional musical notation specifies melody, harmony, tempo and rhythm in great detail but says very little about timbre. If timbre were crucial then a xylophone and a tuba would not be able each to play identifiably the same piece of music. I'm not saying timbre has no importance, I'm just saying that making timbre a secondary concern when allotting funds for hi-fi is a viable approach. I find my ear can adjust for and "hear through" colouration or timbral defects, but it can't hear through, for instance, wow.
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so what part of my post do you disagree with as you have just compared the drainpipes version to the original.
 
darrylfunk said:
so what part of my post do you disagree with...
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This part:
darrylfunk said:
if you had never heard the doctor who theme and you heard it first on the drainpipes you'd think 'meh'!
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What I was trying to say in my post is that I would still enjoy it about as much as I do now, and not think 'meh' at all. I like it on the drainpipes, and would do even if it wasn't a humorous cover version.
 
i agree mescalito.

sondek - it's odd you use the doctor who theme as an example as the pitch and timing on the original wander about all over the place on purpose so it's odd you use it to 'explain your argument' !!!
the fact is miss derbyshire and the crew composed and created it to sound 'out of this world' so it has weird intertwining timings and pitches in a timbrally 'strange' soundscape so quite why you say linn gear makes it sound tuneful is anyones idea.
maybe it shouldn't sound how the linn gear makes it perceived to you.
 
rupert bear said:
Actually, Ron Grainer composed it. Delia Derbyshire and her colleagues performed and recorded it.
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i think i actually mentioned the composition and recording was by a group of people and there is a very strong urban myth based in possible facts that delia actually came up with the strange tunings in her arrangement that were not in ron's score so i guess it could be either....just for the record.

when ron heard it he was supposed to have said - "did i write that?" and delia replied "most of it"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_theme_music
 
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