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Linn Sondek LP12 : Purpose built, or not and to what Spec ?

Woodface said:
It’s the standard Linn hierarchy, no massive insight really.
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david ellwood said:
void the void runs a Mantra, not a Void?

1. Bearing
2. Power Supply
3. Subchassis
4. Top plate
5. Plinth
6. Tone Arm
7. Cartridge
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Well for someone who is only a week into reviewing how to determine getting the best vfm from all of the many possibilities of putting together a LP12 system, it does provide me with a useful focus.

It seems that the Cirkus is an important watershed in the history of the LP12 - there obviously is a musicality in pre-Cirkus Linns : positive view , but which might be construed as lacking detail, boomy bass for those preferring "better" later models. So that is a version, I am going to try out - it might well be that my Manticore satisfies that side of me.

If I then think of life post Cirkus, then I should I need to go for the best bearing the Karousel with more detail and according to some the musicality comes back. So I will also do that and then think about the following parts :

Power Supply - a Lingo of some description either newish or re-built.

I am not sure about the importance of getting the latest version of the Subchassis. but I kind of think that having the armband tonearm as one with the sub chassis is important - perhaps they all were, but then it seems that you can get an arm board separately, so I am a bit confused.

Does any one know the subchassis on the new base model - I assume its a Majik ?

If I go for a Linn tonearm then the Ittok seems a good choice. Non Linn, then the safe bet might be a Rega arm and my two existing turntables have those, another one that has been mentioned is the Roksan Nima Uni-Pivot.

Will by ageing ears be able to really tell the difference between the two systems - that could also be interesting.
 
highfell said:
Thanks, I was getting confused the base model £2015 - doesn’t come with a sub-chassis
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You have to add these to the base model or used/3rd party alternatives

subchassis (majik, kore or keel)

power supply (majik, lingo 4 or radikal)

motor (comes with lingo 4 or radikal)

baseboard (solid or trampolinn)
 
I purchased a new Majik LP12 in 2020 with the jelco arm and Karousel. I wanted the Lingo 4 and did not require the Adikt cartridge (using my own). Not sure if it’s common practice but the dealer deducted the full retail value of the Majik power supply and cartridge. I then sold the motor on eBay. I think I ended up paying under £3500 for the TT in the end.
 
It seems that there are quite a few LP12 users that prefer the older bearings.

Now the infamous patent has long expired, I wonder if some enterprising company will manufacture a new bearing to the old black liner pre-Cirkus specification? It is not that hard to do from an engineering perspective.
 
Who are they going to sell it to?

existing pre cirkus owners aren’t going to change like for like.

Cirkus and Karousel owners don’t want a downgrade.

It’s not worth tooling up for.
 
tenpercenter said:
It seems that there are quite a few LP12 users that prefer the older bearings.

Now the infamous patent has long expired, I wonder if some enterprising company will manufacture a new bearing to the old black liner pre-Cirkus specification? It is not that hard to do from an engineering perspective.
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The better option might be to build a much cheaper LP12 “clone” based on THAT bearing
 
tenpercenter said:
It seems that there are quite a few LP12 users that prefer the older bearings.

Now the infamous patent has long expired, I wonder if some enterprising company will manufacture a new bearing to the old black liner pre-Cirkus specification? It is not that hard to do from an engineering perspective.
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I suspect the percentage of LP12 owners still using a pre-Cirkus bearing is relatively low and there seem to be enough low wear ones popping up at dealerships - I've got 2 backups albeit white liner versions. One of them has hardly any wear at all - perhaps used a short while before the black liner came out as my dealer said that quite a few people did that swap even though it wasn't an official Linn upgrade.
 
James said:
Between the pre-Cirkus and Cirkus perhaps, but I have yet to hear about anyone preferring (pre-)Cirkus to Karousel.
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My problem with the Karousel is that it costs £800. For just a bearing. Maybe it is good but there comes a point where you just say naaa, I object to being taken for a mug. Linn seem to be of the opinion that they can charge whatever they like, however unreasonable and inflated, and people will just pay it. So they've finally manufactured a substantial bearing, something other turntable manufacturers have been doing for decades. And the fact that, shock horror, it works better than the basic one they used to make is supposed to justify it costing almost a grand. Sorry, I'll slum it with an older one.
 
Mr Pig said:
My problem with the Karousel is that it costs £800. For just a bearing. Maybe it is good but there comes a point where you just say naaa, I object to being taken for a mug. Linn seem to be of the opinion that they can charge whatever they like, however unreasonable and inflated, and people will just pay it. So they've finally manufactured a substantial bearing, something other turntable manufacturers have been doing for decades. And the fact that, shock horror, it works better than the basic one they used to make is supposed to justify it costing almost a grand. Sorry, I'll slum it with an older one.
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I actually think it is fabulous value for money for how it transformed my LP12 without losing any of its music-making strengths. In any case, this thread is less about the Karousel and more about buying a higher-spec used LP12 or a new basic one.
 
Mr Pig said:
My problem with the Karousel is that it costs £800. For just a bearing. Maybe it is good but there comes a point where you just say naaa, I object to being taken for a mug. Linn seem to be of the opinion that they can charge whatever they like, however unreasonable and inflated, and people will just pay it. So they've finally manufactured a substantial bearing, something other turntable manufacturers have been doing for decades. And the fact that, shock horror, it works better than the basic one they used to make is supposed to justify it costing almost a grand. Sorry, I'll slum it with an older one.
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It's actually about 666 quid - spooky number :)- the rest of the cost is VAT.

I love the rounding up! If you wanted a grand for doing a job and the buyer gave you 800 and said it was nearly a grand would you be happy?

Given the significant improvement I thought it was a good VFM upgrade? Have you heard the difference it makes?
 
Guinnless said:
I love the rounding up! If you wanted a grand for doing a job and the buyer gave you 800 and said it was nearly a grand would you be happy?
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I actually rounded down, it's £856.

No, I've never heard it. Do I need to? Why are Linn users obsessed with upgrading their decks? Why isn't already having a great sounding record player enough? When does it stop and I can just enjoy playing records?

And no, it isn't good value for money. It's a bearing. Only brain-cooked audiophile sheep think £800 for a bearing is good value. I guarantee you take any normal person off the street and ask them if the difference is worth £800 they're telling you to feck off. Things like this only seem good value if your perspective is property out of whack.
 
In the context that a majik lp12 with Karousel outperforms a Klimax lp12 with cirkus it’s amazing value.

All HiFi is madness to the average man in the street, as is giving opinions on products you have no experience of.
 
david ellwood said:
In the context that a majik lp12 with Karousel outperforms a Klimax lp12 with cirkus it’s amazing value.
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When quantified in that context, then it does sound good value for money.
I've never heard an A/B comparison between the two to let my own ears decide though but that doesn't diminish your thoughts.
 
Mr Pig said:
Things like this only seem good value if your perspective is property out of whack.
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Yes it is a thing. But it's not the thing but what it does that I value. You obviously can't get past the fact it's just another TT bearing, and how much Linn charges for the privilege.
 
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