Linn LP12s – Fire away!

[david ellwood]

I’m a fan of arms with tight bearings and good energy transmission. An aluminium arm tube works well and a head shell properly attached.

The PU7 isn’t a bad arm , it’s just not the Ekos killer that some purport.

Im not a fan of cast arms they don’t seem to work rhythmically or tunefully, no matter how much paint stripper is applied.

 

[tpetsch]

I’m a fan of arms with tight bearings and good energy transmission. An aluminium arm tube works well and a head shell properly attached.

The PU7 isn’t a bad arm , it’s just not the Ekos killer that some purport.

Im not a fan of cast arms they don’t seem to work rhythmically or tunefully, no matter how much paint stripper is applied.

I have an RB3000 and I can assure you that is just as "rhythmic/tuneful" as any tonearm I ever heard on an LP12 if not more so. But I have heard many LP12s with stock &/or aftermarket parts over the years that have somehow lost the tune, so perhaps your blaming the arm when the loss of tune was due to other factors.

 

[Paul Mc]

I'm getting a bit bored of threads being bombarded by folk selling their wares.

 

[Paul R]

Nice, another one on the block?

I don't know. If it's good then a batch would be surprisingly reasonable.

Back in 1984 I had a very early RB300, one of the first to be sold without a Planar attached, on my LP12. This was OK, but this is the days of spot welded braces and MDF or similar arm boards. I resurrected this (the pillar moulding suffered in storage) with the help of a part from Jeff at Audiomods, and used it on a Technics SP10 where it stood up really well compared to an Alphason, and in fact outright. Now it's on an P3 with my daughter.

I suspect that a milled subchassis with a modern Rega arm could be a very effective and good value way to resuscitate a middle aged LP12 which doesn't already have an Ittok or Ekos. Only one way to find out...

(I have no wares, but apologies to anybody whose sensitivities are triggered)

 

[John]

Rega, not compatible, Renders the deck Tuneless.

PU7 , Sorry no, not by all accounts, I know lots of people (me included) that dont rate it at all.

Aro, Yes if youre a Naimy, otherwise steer clear , the Javelin is even worse!

I’m a fan of arms with tight bearings and good energy transmission. An aluminium arm tube works well and a head shell properly attached.

The PU7 isn’t a bad arm , it’s just not the Ekos killer that some purport.

Im not a fan of cast arms they don’t seem to work rhythmically or tunefully, no matter how much paint stripper is applied.

I have an RB3000 and I can assure you that is just as "rhythmic/tuneful" as any tonearm I ever heard on an LP12 if not more so. But I have heard many LP12s with stock &/or aftermarket parts over the years that have somehow lost the tune, so perhaps your blaming the arm when the loss of tune was due to other factors.

His first remark makes me think he’s talking of their use with an LP12 but it could be a general statement as not everyone feels the Rega turntables are better than a LP12. Not sure you could blame the arm but maybe so.

When we were a Rega dealer we tried a RB300 on a LP12 and had it on dem for a while. We weren’t impressed nor were our customers who felt the Basik Plus was more tuneful. We actually preferred the Rega Planar 2 over the Planar 3. When the Linn Axis came we dropped the Rega line as it made no sense for us to carry both. We were a source first, demonstration based shop and the LP12 made more sense for the majority of folks.

 

[Mr Pig]

When we were a Rega dealer we tried a RB300 on a LP12 and had it on dem for a while. We weren’t impressed nor were our customers who felt the Basik Plus was more tuneful.

I'm sure we've had this conversation before? The RB300 is so much better than the Basik it's rediculous but out of the box it didn't suit the Linn of that time all that well. Times have changed and neither Rega arms or the LP12 sound the same. I have an RB303 on a pre-cirkus LP12 and it's very good.

The Planar2 is not better than the Planar3 either. I get why you might prefer the 2, it's a warmer, more defuse sound. Pleasant but it's not better.

 

[david ellwood]

If anything the planar 2 is less diffuse and less warm than a 3 , which is why many prefer it.

The issue was that the decks were almost the same but the 3 carried more mass in the plinth and the platter, this led to a more ponderous and laggy presentation.

Mr Pigs remarks have a consistency to them that suggests that either he is badly informed or that he deliberately spouts inaccuracy in order to confound and confuse.

 

[Mr Pig]

Mr Pigs remarks have a consistency to them that suggests that either he is badly informed or that he deliberately spouts inaccuracy in order to confound and confuse.

Every now and then I unblock David's posts to remind myself of why I blocked him in the first place! Never disappoints.

 

[per-Sony-fied]

I do like a bit of banter, if only pigs could fly

 

[chris@panteg]

When I had a LP12 the only arms I ever heard on it were the basik plus, ittok and the ekos 1 .
The improvement the ekos made was quite substantial in my view.

A much more composed and calmer presentation though by no means bland or anything like that.
It just seemed to clean up the sound,the ittok sounded brash and untidy by comparison?
Though I never heard a Troika on an ittok which I did buy for the ekos.
But I've since moved on from the Linn and very happy with what I have now.

 

[NickofWimbledon]

The arm question looks relevant to me because the net cost (after selling an Ekos 1) is £1500 - £800(-ish). If I can hear one and it is markedly better to my old ears and if we can sort out a proper lift-lower (like Cymbiosis' Lifter) it looks worth considering - but there are other ways of spending money.

Arms? Supertrac at £1500 (I am assuming my Ekos is worth just over half that).
AO PU7 - £2800-ish
Vertere SG-1 - £2300
RB3000 - £1200-ish
Aro - ££ ???
Any more?

I am quite happy with what I am listening to now and I have changed lots already in the last year or two. However, if I come across a way of potentially hearing quite a bit more music for not much cash, I’ll always be interested. having said that...

My Krystal is over 5 years old - it’s ok so far, but probably won’t get through 2023. A new one is £1400 before trade-in, a Kendo is twice that (just more than a Kleos SL), and a Kandid is £3800 (which is a lot of £), and an Ekstatik definitely won't happen.

I have a Kore, but could swap to Keel (or TA Phoenix or Stack). Stack is cheap, but the others aren’t.

I have a standard (but not from the 80s) Linn top plate. A TA Karmen is £1400, and highly regarded by most, while a Stack Alto is £550 (but hard to hear)…

That makes me think spending a net c.£700 on changing my Ekos could be sensible if the upgrade is anything like as big as some suggest and we can sort out the lift-lower issue. A PU-7 or SG-1 would cost a lot more in net outlay, and an Ekos SE would be even more.

At the moment, my best guess is that I will get a new Krystal and a Karmen (for the same combined cost as a Kendo or Kleos SL). Or I may just get Kendo/ Kleos and keep my top-plate.

I also guess that I will keep my Kore, whether I not I change the arm for anything with a sub-£1000 net cost. Even if the arm is good, it may still have less impact than a Kore-to-Keel switch, but then that costs a lot more to do.

I think all that means looking at this arm is not a daft misallocation of time and money - if it sounds markedly better than an Ekos 1 and if there is a lift-lower solution (probably adapting the Cymbiosis Lifer), it could be a good Buy.

However, if others who have been down this road think any of the above suggests concussion/ senility, I’ll be happy to listen to reasons.

 

[NickofWimbledon]

When I had a LP12 the only arms I ever heard on it were the basik plus, ittok and the ekos 1 .
The improvement the ekos made was quite substantial in my view.

A much more composed and calmer presentation though by no means bland or anything like that.
It just seemed to clean up the sound,the ittok sounded brash and untidy by comparison?
Though I never heard a Troika on an ittok which I did buy for the ekos.
But I've since moved on from the Linn and very happy with what I have now.

To be fair, a lot of us think (at least with hindsight) that the Basik+ was pretty poor. (early) Ittok to Ekos? I am with you.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

Arms? Supertrac at £1500 (I am assuming my Ekos is worth just over half that).
AO PU7 - £2800-ish
Vertere SG-1 - £2300
RB3000 - £1200-ish
Aro - ££ ???
Any more?

I’d add the DESIGN BUILD LISTEN “THE WAND PLUS” to that list.

We’ve run a LINN ITTOK LVII for decades and our brand-new WAND PLUS is sitting in its box, waiting for (this) dad to do his thang… hard finding project time just now.

Simon Brown of DESIGN BUILD LISTEN - who designs and builds these arms - is a pleasure to deal with and accommodated my custom one-piece phono cable request, very affordably. He’s one of the great guys in this business.

The late, great - and lamented - Art Dudley gave a glowing review of THE WAND. A ton of other reviews on the web too.

Sorry, I don’t know about pricing in your neck of the woods, but probably very competitive.

Worth a mention here, I think.

 

[NickofWimbledon]

Getting that fitted to my LP12 by someone who isn't me and getting a proper audition would probably put me off, but it certainly reviews well.

 

[Mr Pig]

That makes me think spending a net c.£700 on changing my Ekos could be sensible if the upgrade is anything like as big as some suggest and we can sort out the lift-lower issue.

To be honest, I think the Ekos is good enough to hang on to. You'll get better value by upgrading other things first.

 

[NickofWimbledon]

To be honest, I think the Ekos is good enough to hang on to. You'll get better value by upgrading other things first.

Today, I think that too, but I am thinking it without ever having heard this alternative - or many others in the last decade. Which of the things on my list would you prioritise instead?

 

[Mr Pig]

Which of the things on my list would you priorities instead?

I think pretty much everything other than the cartridge comes before the arm. If you are happy with the arm I don't see a need to change it.

Is there anything in particular you don't like?

 

[Beobloke]

I’d add the DESIGN BUILD LISTEN “THE WAND PLUS” to that list.

The Wand is a superb arm, I completely agree.

But a unipivot on a bouncy deck is the stuff of nightmares, as far as I’m concerned!

 

[per-Sony-fied]

Today, I think that too, but I am thinking it without ever having heard this alternative - or many others in the last decade. Which of the things on my list would you prioritise instead?

Everything on your deck looks good. I would've thought best "value" for money would be a Karousel if you have not yet gone down this route. There are preowned Karousel's around to make this a little more palatable.

Whilst the TA Karmen top plate is good (I own one) I think you'll get a much better overall improvement improving the bearing or going guns out & buy a Lingo 4 if you were contemplating spending that kind of money.

 

[tpetsch]

I think pretty much everything other than the cartridge comes before the arm. If you are happy with the arm I don't see a need to change it.

Is there anything in particular you don't like?

Turntable as a whole -however it may be internally built up is the big question- then arm & then cartridge, in that order for most to least important.
No matter how good the cart is a lesser tonearm will prevent you from getting the most from it, and so on..
If I had a 2000 budget and I wanted to spend it on a tonearm & cart I'd spend 1850 on the tonearm then spend the remaining 150 on a MM for the time being until I can afford a better cart on the next go round..