tpetsch
...The rhythm has Control
I can see that, as flawed and colored as the Lp12 is it still manages plays the tune.
Linn LP12s – Fire away!
- Thread starter NickofWimbledon
- Start date
I can see that, as flawed and colored as the Lp12 is it still manages plays the tune.
tpetsch
...The rhythm has Control
Mmmm...
Just a matter of making it fit.
Interesting, as much as they managed to machine out/reduce much of that energy absorbing mass from that solid aluminum plate, much mass still remains, still weighs over a Kilogram I imagine.
tpetsch
...The rhythm has Control
Yae, look at that, just for fun I just weighed up an original stamped metal kite sub chassis with grey lined bearing -non-Cirkus- and it weighed in at 870g, then I weighed up an original armboard with a drilled hole for Ittok arm support and that came in at 250g, may have been 252 if the hole wasn't drilled Lol, so 1120 grams total.. Oh, add those three tiny armboard mounting screws and you just got those 2g back.
NickofWimbledon
pfm Member
I don't mind about the weight differences as long as it does not mess up the suspension, but I am still interested in comments on how the sub-chassis options compare sonically, and the same for the top plate options.
More comment would also be handy on arms. I think we have plenty of comment on Ittok versus Aro, but hardly anything from people using the modern 'budget' arms.
Is the Majik arm as uninspiring as a Basik + from 20+ years ago?
Are the Krane and the modern Akito 3B really as good as an Ittok LVII, as second-hand prices seem increasingly to suggest?
Is an Ekos 1 hard to distinguish from that group by ear, and radically worse in audible performance than later Ekos models?
Some report that Rega arms sound slow and lifeless on LP12s compared to an Ittok or the same Rega arm on a P10, PT Too, Xerxes etc. Others say that modern Rega and Pro-Ject arms work very well. Who is right?
Finally, another couple of months have gone by. Who has tried a Kendo cartridge yet? Was it any good or will you wait for Kandids to get cheap, now that the Ekstatik exists?
More comment would also be handy on arms. I think we have plenty of comment on Ittok versus Aro, but hardly anything from people using the modern 'budget' arms.
Is the Majik arm as uninspiring as a Basik + from 20+ years ago?
Are the Krane and the modern Akito 3B really as good as an Ittok LVII, as second-hand prices seem increasingly to suggest?
Is an Ekos 1 hard to distinguish from that group by ear, and radically worse in audible performance than later Ekos models?
Some report that Rega arms sound slow and lifeless on LP12s compared to an Ittok or the same Rega arm on a P10, PT Too, Xerxes etc. Others say that modern Rega and Pro-Ject arms work very well. Who is right?
Finally, another couple of months have gone by. Who has tried a Kendo cartridge yet? Was it any good or will you wait for Kandids to get cheap, now that the Ekstatik exists?
SONDEKNZ
Kiwi, now living in Hangzhou, CHINA
Just for the record…
Our new LINN KAROUSEL BEARING did not fit our LINN LP12 PRE-CIRKUS SUB-CHASSIS.
A shame, as I wanted to see how far we could take our old (modified) sub-chassis.
Put simply, the thin 1.3mm metal sub-chassis was too thin for the KAROUSEL “20mm nut” to seat properly on its 1.5mm locator lugs. Tightened all the way, the sub-chassis was still loose.
I suspect that there were many variations of the PRE-CIRKUS SUB-CHASSIS and some - like ours - just don’t fit. Shims may have worked, but possibly may have diminished the benefits of the improved KAROUSEL coupling.
Good thing we already had the STACK AUDIO ALTO SUB-CHASSIS on hand. What a beautiful piece of kit that is!
…and yes. LINN KAROUSEL BEARING and STACK AUDIO ALTO SUB-CHASSIS fit like hand in glove.
Our new LINN KAROUSEL BEARING did not fit our LINN LP12 PRE-CIRKUS SUB-CHASSIS.
A shame, as I wanted to see how far we could take our old (modified) sub-chassis.
Put simply, the thin 1.3mm metal sub-chassis was too thin for the KAROUSEL “20mm nut” to seat properly on its 1.5mm locator lugs. Tightened all the way, the sub-chassis was still loose.
I suspect that there were many variations of the PRE-CIRKUS SUB-CHASSIS and some - like ours - just don’t fit. Shims may have worked, but possibly may have diminished the benefits of the improved KAROUSEL coupling.
Good thing we already had the STACK AUDIO ALTO SUB-CHASSIS on hand. What a beautiful piece of kit that is!
…and yes. LINN KAROUSEL BEARING and STACK AUDIO ALTO SUB-CHASSIS fit like hand in glove.
per-Sony-fied
Me in another jacket
Nice, another one on the block?Mmmm...
Just a matter of making it fit.
It's getting harder to generalize. The Ittok for instance was designed when the LP12 was fatter and looser than it sounds today. Rega arms are not as grey sounding as they used to be and the top ones are very clear and dynamic. You can't be dogmatic as it's a complex puzzle of variables, system matching and personal taste.
In value and quality terms I can't see past Rega arms. Well built, reliable, a lifetime warranty and great sound for the money. In terms of performance I find it much easier to get a good balance with them. They are more evenhanded and neutral so more cartridges work and more records sound good. Rega tonearms dominate the market for a reason.
ProJect arms are just not built well enough for my liking but the fact that Linn chose to put one on an LP12 is telling and illustrates why you can't infer much from used prices. Linn geometry arms are in short supply. A lot of new LP12 owners either really want a Linn arm or at least want one to fit a Linn armboard. Either because that's what they have or they want to easily upgrade to a Linn arm later. On today's LP12 you can't fit another geometry of arm without replacing the sub-chassis and a lot of people don't want to go there. And you've got the Basik and Axis decks which only take Linn arms.
So the price for Linn arms is artificially high and they are poor value. The Akito is what it is, a decent budget arm. The fact that Linn chose to put a silly price tag on it is irrelevant.
To me there are three main options on the LP12. I'm not saying other arms are not great and don't work but in terms of value, availability and being a good all round package I would say:
Budget to mid: Rega and tailor the system and cart to suit.
Top end: PU7. One of the best arms you can put on an LP12 by all accounts and a lot cheaper than an Ekos SE.
And the wild card is a uni-pivot like an Aro or Nima. If you really love that liquid midrange and don't mind the slight compromising top and bottom. Not for me personally but I get why some love them.
david ellwood
Kirabosi Kognoscente
Rega, not compatible, Renders the deck Tuneless.
PU7 , Sorry no, not by all accounts, I know lots of people (me included) that dont rate it at all.
Aro, Yes if youre a Naimy, otherwise steer clear , the Javelin is even worse!
PU7 , Sorry no, not by all accounts, I know lots of people (me included) that dont rate it at all.
Aro, Yes if youre a Naimy, otherwise steer clear , the Javelin is even worse!
NickofWimbledon
pfm Member
So what do you rate?
Are you asking me?
Beobloke
pfm Member
It’s just a wild stab in the dark, but I’m guessing the answer will be “Linn”.
dave charlton
pfm member
Back in the day I had cause to visit a dealer (known for his sound advice) to pick up a pair of speakers that he had been selling through eBay. Spotting an LP12 sporting an RB1000 sitting partially boxed sitting on the floor, I said (IIRC) something like it was the first time I'd seen a Linn with a Rega arm. He replied (IIRC) something like "it was a special for a customer and that an RB1000 was the finest arm for a Linn" - in his opinion of course.
Rega's RB 1000, 2000 & 3000 are awesome arm's for any TT, as is a paint stripped and polished RB300. (much skill and patience required though or being will likely be damaged! However, removing the paint makes for a hell of a positive benefit to the RB300, it makes the arm much more dynamic sounding.
If Paul Messenger rates the RB 1000 on an LP12 that's good advice for me.
If Paul Messenger rates the RB 1000 on an LP12 that's good advice for me.
David, you must be in a club of 1 regarding the PU7, it is an awesome arm...! Derek Jenkins loved it.
It was a stripped RB300 which made me forget the Ittok, except for the looks, which are to die for. The RB3000 I have now sounds so good I have no intention of changing it. It's a stunning arm.
Nah, the Aro, the Javelin, and the Nima are all proven solid options (well, wobbly options, but you know what I mean), the wild card is the SUPATRAC surely?
Missing the bottom end is no biggy, I have SBLs
Missing the top end is perfect, I have SBLs
I think a fully tricked out Rega RB300 can sound very good indeed, different sonic signature to an Ittok LV11 but then again an LV111 MK2 is better IMHO of course. I tried a PU7 or 2 and preferred my Naim Aro. SQ is so subjective and very hard to get the emotional attachments out of the way.
There is a modded RB250 in my collection to try out but the Aro and Ittok LV111 MK2 are staying along with the Breuer arms plus a few more.
There is a modded RB250 in my collection to try out but the Aro and Ittok LV111 MK2 are staying along with the Breuer arms plus a few more.