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Linn LP12s – Fire away!

Discussion in 'audio' started by NickofWimbledon, Aug 24, 2022.

  1. Paul Hindle

    Paul Hindle Do you mock me?

    Does it have to be a battleship or would an aircraft carrier do just as well?
     
  2. Paul R

    Paul R pfm Member

    The energy you can put in with each push is of the order of 50N*500nM. or next to nothing. I think this analogy was absurd when first mooted and has descended into futility.

    Question is how much does the subchassis move in response to stylus drag, and how much does that drag vary in the short term causing wobble. All questions to which it would be very interesting to know the answers.
     
    Mr Pig likes this.
  3. jlw2000

    jlw2000 pfm Member

    hey I’m cirkus/Ekos/krad/Arkiv/Urika and still have the bass bloom. But that might be the Saras.
     
    Miss Ariel and NickofWimbledon like this.
  4. Colin131

    Colin131 pfm Member

    Sorry was busy the last couple of days. That makes sense re the nothing bad comment. You could be right about the Rega arms being more neutral than the Linn arms. I see what you mean about colouring and if too many components are lkke that there can be an issues but there is also the synergy issue. Some components just work well together. Like the Linn arms and the old Linn carts like the Troika etc, or the Aro and Troika.

    The tenor subchassis sounds lkke a decent upgrade for a pre cirkus deck. How did the sound change? More detail etc? Was there still some of the characteristic pre cirkus traits like the sweeter top end and somewhat fuller mid bass?
     
  5. sonddek

    sonddek Trade: SUPATRAC

    Haha, you're welcome to the aircraft carrier.

    That the battleship will move is a given. What is moot is how far. It needs no explanation as we've all pushed someone on a swing.

    The skateboard example is not so obvious and harder to do. I have done it but it takes a bit of practice. You rock to get a little movement and then crouch as you approach the top of your trajectory at either side, and push upwards at the bottom. Since you are not vertical when you crouch at the sides you are sacrificing less gravitational potential energy than you gain when you stand up at the bottom so with each roll the work of your thighs against gravity converts into kinetic energy at the top - you go faster/higher. It is a similar process to driving a swing by pulling up your legs at the low point, doing work against the gravity field through the ropes.

    All these examples of accumulation of energy from small impulses are relevant to how suspended turntables sound when subjected to periodic vibrations, and remind that static or single impulse models are far short of the complete picture. I think the pulsating drag reaction is often underestimated because it is instantaneously small, yet it contributes more than one might expect to the result.
     
  6. david ellwood

    david ellwood Kirabosi Kognoscente

    Maybe the pulsating drag interreaction with the direct drive servo is the reason for the terrible speed performance of the Technics?
     
  7. barryb

    barryb pfm Member

    Yes, it's not the drugs that has folks jauntily dancing in clubs the world over, it's of course the pulsating drag interaction of Technics decks.
     
    guydarryl, sonddek and Mr Pig like this.
  8. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig Trade: ^'- -'^

    I fitted the top plate and sub chassis at the same time so I can't isolate what did what. But the effect was big. Very big for the money it cost.

    Overall I'd say it was cleaner and clearer. Less hash, a lot less hash. The deck has an AT OC9 MLII on it and it was quite fierce at the top end. Afterwards it was very clean and well behaved.

    Did it alter the sound? Yes, otherwise I'm not sure I'd see the point ;O) But I'd say it was wholly for the better. The deck was more tuneful and enjoyable. Even my wife commented on how nice it sounded and she doesn't usually notice these things.

    The top Rega arms are still neutral but not in the dull way the older, cheaper arms where accused of. They keep the neutrality but add detail and dynamics. Very nice arms. The newer budget arms are also better than the older arms. As you might expect.

    I don't see couloration as a problem myself. In fact I think a system needs it to give you a lively, life-like sound. Too clean is too boring.
     
    Colin131 and SONDEKNZ like this.
  9. John

    John Rack’em Up!

    There’s an article in the Linn Magazine written back when the Valhalla was the top power supply that said:

    The fact that the Sondek motor’s speed is fixed also has benefits. Many other makers use servo/feedback mechanisms to correct speed variations. Linn’s succinct answer is that the only certain thing about servo systems is that they’re never at the right speed and always searching for it within successive approximations.

     
  10. NickofWimbledon

    NickofWimbledon pfm Member

    What was it Mandy Rice-Davies said?
     
  11. david ellwood

    david ellwood Kirabosi Kognoscente

    It’s probably the case that no turntable is ever at the right speed, what’s required is the most accurate speed stability without introducing noise due to hunting.
     
    NickofWimbledon likes this.
  12. per-Sony-fied

    per-Sony-fied Me in another jacket

    I've had a few speeding tickets in my time but my turntable has never had none! :D
     
  13. John R

    John R pfm Member

    Doesn't that mean it's had a few? Double negative?

    As in "I'm not gonna work on Maggie's farm no more"?
     
  14. per-Sony-fied

    per-Sony-fied Me in another jacket

    I wasn't looking at it in that way but yes now you mention it could have another meaning.
     
    John R likes this.
  15. John R

    John R pfm Member

    Lol, but perhaps I should have quoted Bob's song as "I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more"
     
    NickofWimbledon likes this.
  16. John

    John Rack’em Up!

    When Linn introduced the Keel and Ekos SE they referred to them as the “SE upgrades”. Maybe they should have been named the “SG upgrades”, the SG standing for sour grapes.
     
  17. NickofWimbledon

    NickofWimbledon pfm Member

    Lawyers for Gibson might need consulting if you want to call anything 'SG' - not sure if Touraj M ever got a letter from them after his turntable came out...
     
    John R likes this.
  18. John R

    John R pfm Member

    SE of course meaning - Simply Extortionate! (?)
     
  19. per-Sony-fied

    per-Sony-fied Me in another jacket

    Or Stupidly Expensive :D Some might say - Sound Engineering
     
    John R likes this.
  20. sonddek

    sonddek Trade: SUPATRAC

    In which case don't buy a Radikal which would appear to be a servo system which only monitors speed once every 1.8 seconds. Couple that with a stretchy belt driving a heavy platter constrained by wobbly springs and you have a system which theoretically would amplify hunting by an order of magnitude at least.
     
    Nic Robinson, tpetsch and John R like this.

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