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Linn LP12s – Fire away!

Octavian said:
The problem here is that Linn lovers want to hear their turntable making music. The rest of the world wants to hear the artists making the music. Linn or any other vinyl turntable is quite poor at conveying the original artistic creation to listeners.
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As a Linn owner, I would say, for me, it is the opposite. I listen to music and enjoy it, not thinking about my system. The only time I would listen and focus on a turntable would be if I was comparing two TT or two different spec LP12s when considering an upgrade. The rest (most) of the time, I tend to put on a record, sit and listen to the music and forget about the hi-fi.
 
paulbysea said:
The only time I would listen and focus on a turntable would be if I was comparing two TT or two different spec LP12s when considering an upgrade. The rest (most) of the time, I tend to put on a record, sit and listen to the music and forget about the hi-fi.
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This is what the LP12 does so well, better than any other source I've tried. All other attributes are secondary.
 
Octavian said:
The problem here is that Linn lovers want to hear their turntable making music. The rest of the world wants to hear the artists making the music. Linn or any other vinyl turntable is quite poor at conveying the original artistic creation to listeners.
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The idea that you can somehow pigeon hole a group of people and understand their individual beliefs based on what record player they own is at best the ravings of an idiot, at worst the ravings of a bigoted narcissistic idiot (probably a Technics owner)
 
Mr Pig said:
This is what the LP12 does so well, better than any other source I've tried. All other attributes are secondary.
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I think there are a fair few other TT, streamers, tuners etc, that manage this equally well for people who have different wants for the voicing of the piece of kit. I have an ageingLP12 and am very happy with it but I would also be happy with a friend's Phonosophie P3 and a few other TTs around my budget level, they all have their strengths and allow you to enjoy the music you are playing. That being said, I am most likely to stick with the devil I know.
 
sonddek said:
I see what you did there.

I believed in the ideas behind this particular snobbery for decades. Then I made an effort genuinely and fairly to compare the two legendary decks in question, and others, and I came to the conclusion that my snobbery must have been an artefact of a religious cult to which I had belonged for years. Now that I'm out of it I'm enjoying my records more on many turntables, including my Sondek. It no longer matters to me whether I made the right or wrong decisions about how to spend my meagre hifi funds. I'm just having fun. I may be insulted for saying so, but there are many great decks, and there may be reasons why some people prefer Technics DD turntables. To each, his own.
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Especially those that accept your tonearm…
 
John said:
Especially those that accept your tonearm…
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I have not yet listened to the replay of vinyl via Richard's tonearm (I would like to one day) but the philosophy behind it makes perfect sense and the results of many having had the opportunity to experience it are manifest as entirely positive and ground breaking. Good luck to him I say and thank God for third party experimentation and development too I say. It takes a certain bravery and tenacity to bring to market anything, particularly as a lone Man operation.
 
sonddek said:
I see what you did there.

I believed in the ideas behind this particular snobbery for decades. Then I made an effort genuinely and fairly to compare the two legendary decks in question, and others, and I came to the conclusion that my snobbery must have been an artefact of a religious cult to which I had belonged for years. Now that I'm out of it I'm enjoying my records more on many turntables, including my Sondek. It no longer matters to me whether I made the right or wrong decisions about how to spend my meagre hifi funds. I'm just having fun. I may be insulted for saying so, but there are many great decks, and there may be reasons why some people prefer Technics DD turntables. To each, his own.
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I wonder if he is referring to that other chap ? You know that notorious fellow who lives up north.
I dare say that they are none to fond of each other.....
 
nobeone said:
It always gives me the jitters when Edmund brags about the speed of the Mober DC controller, either he doesn't understand and fortunately the person that developed the speed control algorithm does or there are potential issues there! Measure more often by all means, but the speed control either needs to be above or below the audible range with care taken by someone with a lot of control systems experience.
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No need to brag, the CPU displays the real time speed accuracy on the LCD display, no one have ever done such accurate speed control for turntable before, this is the first one in the industry. Some turntable platter are too heavy, the heaviness of platter makes it impossible to to any correction in 10 milliseconds. Linn LP12 is the best option to do that fast correction.

Quote:
"speed control either needs to be above or below the audible range with care taken by someone with a lot of control systems experience."

No wonder people said the best amplifier system has not been designed yet.

Once a guy asked me, What equipment do you check you system is better than other equipment?

My reply to him was, If you need to debate with others that your equpment is better, that is failure.

Once set up with my equipment, the cartridge hits the groove, the sound are stunning, audiences are speechless, no need to debate, audiences unanimously can tell it is many times better.

No one willing to return to you whatever you offer to them. Or hard to find one in the second hand market.

That is good sound! Nail it!
 
bigfish said:

No need to brag, the CPU displays the real time speed accuracy on the LCD display, no one have ever done such accurate speed control for turntable before, this is the first one in the industry. Some turntable platter are too heavy, the heaviness of platter makes it impossible to to any correction in 10 milliseconds. Linn LP12 is the best option to do that fast correction.

Quote:
"speed control either needs to be above or below the audible range with care taken by someone with a lot of control systems experience."

No wonder people said the best amplifier system has not been designed yet.

Once a guy asked me, What equipment do you check you system is better than other equipment?

My reply to him was, If you need to debate with others that your equpment is better, that is failure.

Once set up with my equipment, the cartridge hits the groove, the sound are stunning, audiences are speechless, no need to debate, audiences unanimously can tell it is many times better.

No one willing to return to you whatever you offer to them. Or hard to find one in the second hand market.

That is good sound! Nail it!
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Edmund, I’d heard a rumour that you’d made the move to the UK, any truth to that?
 
bigfish said:

No need to brag, the CPU displays the real time speed accuracy on the LCD display, no one have ever done such accurate speed control for turntable before, this is the first one in the industry. Some turntable platter are too heavy, the heaviness of platter makes it impossible to to any correction in 10 milliseconds. Linn LP12 is the best option to do that fast correction.
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Sorry Edmund, this isn't the case. Look into how the Technics SP10/2 and subsequent work. The technical documentation is available at VinylEngine and elsewhere.

Active speed control is, of course, not the whole tuna.
 
Mr Pig said:
I must admit, I actively would not want a display telling me the speed. If it sounds right that's all I need.
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Me neither. I only checked mine for the first time in its 40 year life span when, after always using Linn belts, I changed to a blue belt and even then, only because you lot insisted it was the done thing. Great hobby this, especially indicated for the tone deaf. Can´t wait for JohnR´s insoles to arrive.
 
Paul R said:
Sorry Edmund, this isn't the case. Look into how the Technics SP10/2 and subsequent work. The technical documentation is available at VinylEngine and elsewhere.

Active speed control is, of course, not the whole tuna.
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I would not compare the technology in 80's to nowaday CPU technology.

I do own one Technics SP10 MK2, I do like it. It is the anologue LED speed control in 80's LED emit light to the stripe, and speed varies the light intensity, visual set the volatage to the transistors comparator at 33.3 rpm and it keeps the constant speed. However, it is a synchrous DC motor, like the Linn LP12 AC synchorous motor, drive by saw wave at certain Hz . Maxon DC motor is high precision and very stable DC motor purely driven by DC voltage, speed control is only a variation of few millvolts.
 
No probs John. I’ll just mosey alongto the beach til they arrive.You sent them to my mate in Derby and he got them the next day. The problem is post- Brexit postage from uk to Spain and thence to the Canaries. Customs in Madrid just stops everything even personal mail ,looking to charge VAT and parcels can be detained easily for 10-15 days with no info on the tracking service. When they get tired they give clearance for it to be sent to the Canaries where things are vat free (21%) but you run the risk of getting clobbered for local import tax (5%), luck of the draw. So thanks all thei same for all the Christmas presents folks but send them to the Tories, they’re more in need of a bit of love and affection. Methinks.
 
bigfish said:
I would not compare the technology in 80's to nowaday CPU technology.

I do own one Technics SP10 MK2, I do like it. It is the anologue LED speed control in 80's LED emit light to the stripe, and speed varies the light intensity, visual set the volatage to the transistors comparator at 33.3 rpm and it keeps the constant speed. However, it is a synchrous DC motor, like the Linn LP12 AC synchorous motor, drive by saw wave at certain Hz . Maxon DC motor is high precision and very stable DC motor purely driven by DC voltage, speed control is only a variation of few millvolts.
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It's a brushless DC motor with electronic commutation. The speed control is done by phase locking the signal generated by a frequeny generator to a signal derived from the oscillator, the output voltage from the phase comparator drives the DC motor.

This is why if you apply a large load to the platter, with your finger for example, the speed doesn't drop but a phase lag is introduced, the spots on the strobe become offset.

I think the frequency generator produces about 100Hz at 33.3 rpm. Remarkable turntable.

Anyway I don't think it's a relevant approach to a belt drive with a much higher inertia. If you make the DC drive 'stiff', or ideally compensated for motor impedance, the short term will take care of itself and you use measurement of the platter rotation to get the speed right between the beginning and end of a side, or between a cold day and a warm day, without expecting the customer to be twiddling. IMO etc.

Anyway looks like you chose exactly the wrong moment to move. Hell in a handcart whatever happens poliitically, the chance of economic recovery has been firmly denied us.
 
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