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Linn LP12s – Fire away!

Discussion in 'audio' started by NickofWimbledon, Aug 24, 2022.

  1. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Proving stylus drag is easy. Just measure the power-off spin-down time of a non-belt drive deck (with brake disabled if it has one, e.g. Technics, Garrard etc) with: a) the arm cued (i.e. unloaded spin-down), b) a silent track on a test disk, and c) a heavily modulated record (e.g. loud 12” single). You will get three very different figures. How this translates to transient wow will depend on the torque and mass of the deck, but I’d put money on it being a thing outside of the real powerhouse direct drive or idlers.
    chris@panteg and Mr Pig like this.
  2. amis

    amis Member

    I have owned LP12 for 43 years. I have followed every upgrade after listening. I have never regretted the upgrades. I still have a pre-cirkus LP12 as a souvenir. The pre-cirkus was interesting in its time; with cirkus and then Karoussel, LP 12 still sounds as musical and lively as ever with less coloration. One can always point to design flaws, however it plays great that way. I've listened to turntables like: Technics SP10 Mk 2, Garrard 401, Avid Diva, VPI Signature, Oracle Delphi, Clearaudio Master Innovation. Each one has its own personality, they are worthy of the reputation the music is excellent; however they do not make me regret listening to my Linn LP12, even more so with Karoussel and Kit Radikal 2 !
    joe9407, Miss Ariel, John and 4 others like this.
  3. Paul R

    Paul R pfm Member

    From some measurements I took back in May I estimated stylus drag to be less than 0.01N. I'm sceptical of this figure, it seems too high. A gram at the surface of the earth weighs about 0.01N.

    But as an upper bound worth thinking about.
  4. sonddek

    sonddek Trade: SUPATRAC

    You can make a suspended battleship swing with your little finger.
  5. per-Sony-fied

    per-Sony-fied Me in another jacket

    Ooh!, where can I try that out?
    Wolfmancatsup likes this.
  6. sonddek

    sonddek Trade: SUPATRAC

    You will have to make your own arrangements I'm afraid. I'm not currently able to provide battleships, or even a suitable derrick. You also need a windless day or a very large hangar.
  7. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig Trade: ^'- -'^

    Bet you can't.
  8. sonddek

    sonddek Trade: SUPATRAC

    Prove you can't ;-)

    I don't need to prove it since it's GCSE Physics. You're the one making the extraordinary claim.
  9. tpetsch

    tpetsch pfm Member

    Here's a Demo, stylus drag error shown in real time @ 2:40 but the whole video is interesting, not my video FWIW but I do own a similar devise called the Timeline SE:
  10. per-Sony-fied

    per-Sony-fied Me in another jacket

    What a disappointment, short of finding a shipyard with a battleship under construction or overhaul & asking them nicely I'll have to take your word for it :( ;) Wouldn't want to cause a disaster though :D
    sonddek likes this.
  11. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig Trade: ^'- -'^

    Not really. It's like the whole moving the world with a long enough lever thing. On paper in makes sense but only if you ignore the practical and physical constraints that make it utterly impossible. Saying you can't is not an extraordinary claim, it's a statement of fact.
  12. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig Trade: ^'- -'^

    Nothing bad is a good general description of the sound of Rega arms! One person's bland in another's nothing bad. The problem is that components which are coloured need to be compensated for, which I don't mind at all, but if you have a lot of things which are coloured it can get tricky.

    My deck has a Cirkus and I fitted one and a Tenor top-plate to a friend's deck which is pre-Cirkus. It was a big upgrade in my opinion. I'm about to buy a better Stack sub-chassis and I've yet to decide whether to fit the Tenor to the other LP12 or sell it.

    If the cart is level that does me, or close enough. Dial in the tracking weight and I'm done.
    Colin131 and Miss Ariel like this.
  13. Paul R

    Paul R pfm Member

    A reasonable estimate of how far a suspended battleship would move with the push of a finger is in the order of the wavelength of visible light. Given that said battleship will be vibrating in all sorts of unpredictable modes that will cause movements in excess of that I think it's fair to say 'you can't'.

    OTOH measuring the magnitude of stylus drag, how it varies during play, how the subchassis moves in response and what that means for pitch variations is all eminently practical. It would behoove the critics of the LP12 to prove it. IMO.

    If anybody wants a braKe, get in contact.
    Mr Pig and NickofWimbledon like this.
  14. Paul Hindle

    Paul Hindle Do you mock me?

    This forum gets very surreal sometimes.
    tpetsch and NickofWimbledon like this.
  15. nobeone

    nobeone Total Member

    There are turntables out there built like battleships, so perhaps this isn't such a surreal thing after all?!! :D
    Paul Hindle likes this.
  16. Chris

    Chris pfm Member

    My John R insoles are on their way so I hope to be able to say what I´m missing or have gained before Christmas and whether or not I have a slightly used (10 years ?)set of springs and grommets for sale.
    nobeone likes this.
  17. sonddek

    sonddek Trade: SUPATRAC

    I think an hour of firm and well timed little-finger presses at the pendulum's natural frequency should get the ship moving visibly. A stopwatch should help.

    I remember trying to convince my maths teacher that you could stand on a stationary skateboard at the bottom of a half pipe and get up to the rail without touching the ground. So skeptical was he that we went to the skate park, and he saw it done in about thirty seconds, just by "faking it" (not turning) and vertical work in the trough.

    Periodic injections of small increments of energy often produce surprises with oscillatory systems.
  18. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig Trade: ^'- -'^

    I don't. The energy needed to overcome the friction in any pendulum that could hold a fifty thousand ton ship would be a show stopper. It might work on paper, with your theoretical frictionless hanger, but in the real world it's not happening.

    I guess your maths teacher was a bit thick then as any kid knows a human can overcome the friction in skateboard trucks by shifting their weight very easily.
  19. sonddek

    sonddek Trade: SUPATRAC

    There are lots of reasons why we won't see this in the real world.

    Can you explain the process?
  20. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig Trade: ^'- -'^

    You didn't explain how you can make a suspended battleship swing with your little finger?

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