Linn Keel - What's so special?

[Willie Eckerslyke]

Some years ago the stars aligned and I was in a position to commit some money to either upgrading my LP12, or selling it and spending the augmented budget on something else. I auditioned everything I could, limited only by what dealers within travelling distance were able to demonstrate.

And had the Keel installed together with a s/h Ekos. Never regretted it and have since slowly managed to do the rest of the upgrades, except for a Kandid.

Very happy. YMMV.

Also heard a Rubikon, after the Keel had been installed. Direct comparison was not possible, but it was also a very impressive step forward from the original subchassis.

 

[James]

When Linn released their Cirkus kit, which included a new inner platter, sub-chassis, springs, grommets and maybe a belt or two (can't be sure, I kept my pre-Cirkus), it was reasonably priced. I seem to recall it would have cost me all of NZ$1,000 back in the early 1990s.

Even accounting for inflation, the price of the Keel is way OTT. I unashamedly bought a Greenstreet instead, and I'm well and truly chuffed with it.

I see there are at least two manufacturers attempting to make Keel copies - personally I have no time for such intellectual plagiarism.

At the risk of going over old ground, all LP12 owners endorse intellectual plaigarism. Othewise their beloved TTs would be labelled RD11 rather than LP12.

 

[YNWOAN]

I realise you post as an owner of one of those copies but your logic appears to be that two wrongs (conveniently) make a right (presumably the RD11 would have been called the TD150).

I should add that I'm not endorsing Linn's copy of the RD11, itself a copy of the Thorens. Copying another's work is, in my view, wrong - it doesn't matter what others have done, it's still wrong and lazy and uncreative.

I don't own an LP12.

 

[windhoek]

At the risk of going over old ground, all LP12 owners endorse intellectual plaigarism. Othewise their beloved TTs would be labelled RD11 rather than LP12.

Touché

 

[Rob400]

At the risk of going over old ground, all LP12 owners endorse intellectual plaigarism. Othewise their beloved TTs would be labelled RD11 rather than LP12.

The Ariston RD11 was my first turntable.The LP12 was a big improvement sound quality wise as I remember. The LP12 may well have used the same design philosophy but through plagiarism? That's like accusing all valve amp manufactures of stealing Lee Deforest's 1907 design....

 

[John]

The Ariston RD11 was my first turntable.The LP12 was a big improvement sound quality wise as I remember. The LP12 may well have used the same design philosophy but through plagiarism? That's like accusing all valve amp manufactures of stealing Lee Deforest's 1907 design....

Same for me, I went from a RD11S/Mission arm and cartridge to a LP12/Ittok/Karma. The Greenstreet subchassis for $899 was a great value upgrade for me. I would never spend much more than that for such a part.

 

[yuckyamson]

I'm not aware of any reviews or listening tests on this site where the two were directly compared.

KEY POINT!

Gaius probably tried it. Although his opinion would now be considered..."compromised" given he's entering the market with a competitive product.

(can we please see the shots of the new dingy already?)

 

[Stunsworth]

The Ariston RD11 was my first turntable.The LP12 was a big improvement sound quality wise as I remember. The LP12 may well have used the same design philosophy but through plagiarism?

Well, Linn were making the Ariston at the time. It could have been coicidence I suppose, but I've always wondered if it was a poorly put together contract (from Ariston's point of view) between Linn and Ariston that allowed Linn to manufacture the item with their name on it.

 

[cliffpatte]

A plain vanilla LP12 / Tiktok / Arkiv2 / Lingo2 is well worth exactly what I paid for it

Not sure if the latest greatest full fat LP12 is worth the asking price

 

[Craig B]

The Ariston RD11 was my first turntable.The LP12 was a big improvement sound quality wise as I remember. The LP12 may well have used the same design philosophy but through plagiarism? That's like accusing all valve amp manufactures of stealing Lee Deforest's 1907 design....

Your RD11 was likely an RD11s then. A similar but different beast with round arm-board vs. the RD11/LP12 long rectangular one (not to mention the none symmetrical vs. symmetrically shaped sub-chassis that wanted to go lateral even more so than did the kite). Otherwise, your RD11 was to earlier spec than was your LP12, or it was broken.

BTW, It was I who collated all of the published evidence of the late H.McD vs. Tiefenbruns patent case and stuck it on the web for all and sundry to misquote ad infinum.

Craig

 

[RossB]

I had an LP12 and decided that the new upgrades - Keel, Ekos SE, Radikal - were too expensive and that I would use something simpler that would not tempt me with these ridiculous upgrades. I sold my LP12 and used a Nottingham Ace Spacedeck and Moerch DP-6 arm, and a Rega RP8. Both are good decks, but they didn't sound right to me.

I ended up buying a new LP12. I solved the problem about endlessly fretting about the upgrades by buying them (other than the Radikal, which I'm saving for next year). I now have a new LP12 with Keel, Ekos SE, Armageddon and Lyra Delos. I am happy again. To be honest I can't tell you what improvements the Keel brings. I can tell you that it sounds like an LP12, and sounds incredible, and after selling off half my record collection earlier in the year, I have started buying records again.

 

[John]

KEY POINT!

Gaius probably tried it. Although his opinion would now be considered..."compromised" given he's entering the market with a competitive product.

(can we please see the shots of the new dingy already?)

Yes, that and the Tiger Paw offering as well. Maybe they will both appear at the same time.

 

[Craig B]

Is there a Norwegian word for rudder that has a k in it?

 

[Nero]

I have an LP12 with Keel and Aro. I really enjoy it. I inherited the deck as a NAPSA/Prefix/Cirkus/Aro deck (the Keel/A was also inherited but had not been fitted to the LP12 at the time I acquired it). I have upgraded it slowly to Radikal/Keel/Urika/Aro/DVXX2 II. It sounds fantastic and has great sentimental value for me, so it is unlikely to go anywhere soon.

I believe that the estimate of the number of Keel/As sold mentioned above is wildly biased downwards. Cymbiosis alone sold a batch of 50 Keel/As in the recent past made specially for them by Linn. I have no idea where the 5/1 ratio of Ekos/Aro discussed above came from either.

Crap photo:

Another crap photo

I would have to spend a silly amount of money to improve upon this deck. A new cartridge is on the cards though......

+1

I have an ARO on a Keel and I love it, and well worth the investment for me. But like everything it's subjective. I agree with YW about the plagiarism, especially as the original went through a lot of time consuming iterations and listening tests (I can be sure of that, it wasn't just slung together), but I bought it based on my own listening tests - some dealers are open to that.

 

[John]

I had an LP12 and decided that the new upgrades - Keel, Ekos SE, Radikal - were too expensive and that I would use something simpler that would not tempt me with these ridiculous upgrades. I sold my LP12 and used a Nottingham Ace Spacedeck and Moerch DP-6 arm, and a Rega RP8. Both are good decks, but they didn't sound right to me.

I ended up buying a new LP12. I solved the problem about endlessly fretting about the upgrades by buying them (other than the Radikal, which I'm saving for next year). I now have a new LP12 with Keel, Ekos SE, Armageddon and Lyra Delos. I am happy again. To be honest I can't tell you what improvements the Keel brings. I can tell you that it sounds like an LP12, and sounds incredible, and after selling off half my record collection earlier in the year, I have started buying records again.

That's quite a loss for moving on from an old friend. Hopefully they were records you seldom listened to and all went to a good home. Glad to hear you're enjoying your upgraded LP12.

I could probably lose half my collection and not miss it much though I would be tempted to repurchase many of them sometime later. For what I would get for them without much effort on my part selling them, it's worth it just to keep them around as long as the storage space is available.

 

[RossB]

Yes, it was quite a loss. Most were records I rarely listened to, but it did include a few gems (the complete Bitches Brew and In a Silent Way sessions on Mosaic, for example), and I regret selling about 20% of them. But I am slowly buying back most of what I lost and picking up some new ones as well. Maybe a little renewal is not a bad thing.

 

[yuckyamson]

Is there a Norwegian word for rudder that has a k in it?

Yes. Similar to what my brethren make gefilte fish out of:

"Karp". Except I think the A and the R are reversed.

 

[John]

Yes, it was quite a loss. Most were records I rarely listened to, but it did include a few gems (the complete Bitches Brew and In a Silent Way sessions on Mosaic, for example), and I regret selling about 20% of them. But I am slowly buying back most of what I lost and picking up some new ones as well. Maybe a little renewal is not a bad thing.

Indeed, I purged around 350 records last year and miss none of them. It freed up some much needed space which is getting used up with mostly new vinyl. Used records in my local has pretty much dried up.

I'm sure you're enjoying revisiting many of your old favorites and imagine what you have now is you quite a step forward in performance from your old LP12.

 

[yuckyamson]

+1

I have an ARO on a Keel and I love it, and well worth the investment for me. But like everything it's subjective. I agree with YW about the plagiarism, especially as the original went through a lot of time consuming iterations and listening tests (I can be sure of that, it wasn't just slung together), but I bought it based on my own listening tests - some dealers are open to that.

Gorgeous looking deck. Question, since you have an aro it goes to follow that you probabyl originally had a Geddon? How did the Radikal compare? How was it to upgrade to the keeL?

I only ask because I have a cirkus/aro/geddon/

 

[ssimon]

A plain vanilla LP12 / Tiktok / Arkiv2 / Lingo2 is well worth exactly what I paid for it

Not sure if the latest greatest full fat LP12 is worth the asking price

Interesting point, do we value our hi-fi on the resale value?
I try and forget what I've paid for a piece of equipment, and am happy when I get a good price on resale.