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Linn K5 & K9 confusion

Discussion in 'classic' started by lilolee, Oct 18, 2020.

  1. The Captain

    The Captain ~~~~~~~~~~

    So you mean the thread diameter of the AT, is smaller than the mission headblock, so the thinner screws will feed through the shaft of the AT?

    Do you know if the threaded hole goes all the way through & out the bottom of the AT? Im stuffed if it's either athreaded section with a metal bottom to it, or, if this bit is hollow but sits on a solid section of plastic without a hole out underneath.
  2. The Captain

    The Captain ~~~~~~~~~~

    At least the AT holes go through the btm. Just seen a pic confirming this.

    But I got trouble ahead if the screws are the same diameter.. no way they're gonna marry up with the headblock on my 774. So I'll need to add shims of the perfect thickness. And I have an added aluminium fingerlift sandwiched between cart & 774 head too.

    Urgh.. what an utter ballache.
  3. Chris

    Chris pfm Member

    How about we swap your 774 for my K9 body ?
  4. Craig B

    Craig B Re:trophile

    I haven't done this myself, but someone reported having success threading the mission screws up through the bottom of the VM95 threaded inserts and on into the Mission headshell (mounting block I prefer to call it). This would require some care so as to get both screws just flush with the top surface of the cartridge such that both can be evenly screwed on into the headshell block, taking care not to cross-thread the headshell holes especially (perhaps using the soft Nylon washers as buffer).

    Another option would be to fit the ML stylus to the K5 body and go with that.
  5. The Captain

    The Captain ~~~~~~~~~~

    Hi Craig, this whole idea is becoming fraught with difficulty. Godammit. Im not drilling the headblock through, that's for one thing. I don't like the idea of using the misfitting stylus on my k5 body either. Rigidity would be compromised surely, minimum.

    I've read that the mission thread is 2.5mm, & the AT is 2.6mm. I need to get this confirmed, no reply from AT as to my china mfr query (did you know theyre now china made? Seems possibly not as you mentioned japan made earlier in the thread).

    Being china made means I'm now less confident, if they are 2.5mm, that the 1/2" distance between the two.. will be spot on. Then Ive got to do your flexible shim idea, if they do marry up. Seems like I've spent £135 for nought. And alot of time landing on this cartridge idea, both of our time.

    If only these had side channels, instead of threads, like a dl110 & my shelter does. Cheaper to bloody make too. Ffs.
  6. The Captain

    The Captain ~~~~~~~~~~

    Hi Chris, sorry not understanding..
  7. Craig B

    Craig B Re:trophile

    I don't think there would be any compromise to rigidity. Although the stylus knob (plastic part) extends up to plastic of the cartridge body proper on these, the design doesn't rely upon this for support. Instead, it is a combination of the rectangular post that fits snugly into the body along with the bottom, sides, and front of the 'knob' fitting snugly to the metal can. The gap at the top is quite fine with these but it can't be zero else risk compromising the full seating of the square peg, inside bottom and sides.

    On another thread here someplace, I recommended to someone that they try captive 2.5mm screws. These have a length of unthreaded rod between screw head and threaded part, so once the threaded part passes through the embedded nut within the cartridge there is no thread left within to bind. You'd want to have a measure of the depth of the threaded inserts in the cartridge and also take into account the depth of the headshell holes.


    I think it was me who mentioned that the bottom two VM95 models are made in China, with VM95EN (nude elliptical) on up being fully made in Japan. Regardless, I doubt that the styli are made in China.
  8. The Captain

    The Captain ~~~~~~~~~~

    @Craig B thanks for this Craig. Is your suggestion I could maybe use these captive bolts on the AT body, or was your suggestion soley on the K5 body? It was bought yesterday & posted today, so Ive missed he boat to cancel it now. He told me it is made in china.. urgh. I agree though & doubt the stylus & its bonding to the cantilever are china mfr. just doesn't seem likely to me.

    Its this very this bonding join that concerns me though: I find I need to use a tiny stiffish wee stylus brush with a drop of fluid, on my Shelter, fairly regularly to keep it from clogging up, just black vinyl gunk (each Lp is clean). I loathe doing it from back to front (obviously this direction), & hold my breath that the diamond won't be pulled off, however gently I try to do it. Have faith tho.. telling myself it's japan made & never a problem.
  9. Craig B

    Craig B Re:trophile

    I think the appropriate size captive bolts would go up through the VM95ML threaded inserts from below such that they end up threading into the Mission with no thread left within the cartridge sockets, such that there is no risk or binding or cross-threading. You'll want M2.5 and whatever overall length L that doesn't end up bottoming out in the Mission holes.

    Like this but preferably hex socket:
  10. The Captain

    The Captain ~~~~~~~~~~

    Thanks Craig, I was a bit stressed last night, just as you do when an ebay buy 'wrong'.. then read your captive bolt idea last thing & panic lessened. Its finding the right length tho of L & LM.. might be rockinghorse poop territory?

    Great clarifying things with this diagram, so damn helpful Im most grateful! Capt
  11. Craig B

    Craig B Re:trophile

    These stainless M2.5 miniature captive screws look like they might be close. Many suppliers don't go below M3.

    Measure the thickness of cartridge mounting lug when the A-T arrives, and then add the depth of the threaded holes within the Mission mounting block. Make sure to subtract a bit from the total so as not to have the screws bottom out before the cartridge is tight. As long as there is enough none threaded length to clear the cartridge threads with a good few mm of threaded end into the headshell, all should be good.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2022
  12. The Captain

    The Captain ~~~~~~~~~~

    @Craig B I have searched this company but each are discontinued, & www too but this isn't straightforward. Hmm.
    I might have to cut down, then file away 8mm of thread, of 2 alu ones.. but this isn't gonna be easy/ maybe not a viable idea. Will report once I get it & see whats what. Ideal if I could pop the thread bits out. Fat chance i bet.


    Anyway I got this email reply from AT. Courteous start & end to email, the main bit thus:

    "As we only use our own factories in either China or Japan, all our products are subject to the same exacting quality control and expertise. Dependant on the location of our diamond providers facility and production output, this dictates as to in which factory the final assembly takes place. In the case of the 95ML (Microlinear), this is in Japan."

    Why does the box say mfr in china then I wonder. Seems odd. Will have to ask him in reply.
  13. Craig B

    Craig B Re:trophile

  14. The Captain

    The Captain ~~~~~~~~~~

    Thanks Craig- fab, I was searching for 'captive bolts' I think or Id have seen them.

    Yup it's only once here I can see exactly all dims needed. This sounds promising though, 3mm is spot on.
  15. The Captain

    The Captain ~~~~~~~~~~

    @Craig B Update. Got the cart on.. kinda fluked it with some bolts I had, there's a small gap (headblock to cart) though, one side only.. which is a drag. So have to mount it on a slight angle/ nothing I can do, tried washers but won't behave. So the head of the arm once all balanced etc, is just off bubble-centre, to compensate.

    And spun a few Lp's. I still have the 470pf caps on the naim boards.

    First impressions: the treble has been unlocked as it were, which was mainly my primary intent with this 'upgrade'. Noise level seems fractionally more, but almost comparable. Good too. Some added HF detail too which is also good. Bright, but not excessively so, even at this early stage. Bodes well. Relief this tbh. A certain smoothness thing, good.

    There is a fair dose of 'artificialness' though especially HF, & a general hardness, & bass is not as clear or full too. I noticed this analytical artificial thing with the other AT cart, almost like it's trying to be a cd sound.

    I hope some of the negatives might elapse in time with burn-in, & also if I change the poly cap to 100pf.

    An interesting change, at the moment perhaps a sideways-step more than an upgrade.. but early days.

    Thanks, Capt.
  16. Craig B

    Craig B Re:trophile

    I'm just going to pretend that your first paragraph never happened.

    The analyticalmitosis/artificialitis is going to happen with any A-T MM into Naim 'N' boards. I wouldn't waist another record side worth of molecules being warn off that ML tip into circa 600pF, especially so if I had a couple of 100pF polystyrenes lying spare. A couple of minutes with the soldering iron and all will sound sublime.
    Durmbo likes this.
  17. The Captain

    The Captain ~~~~~~~~~~

    Hi Craig, the offkilter mounting isn't visible really.. only a tiny gap one side: the captive screws would take another week+ at the mo to get here, I couldn't wait really & heads were slightly bigger too & might have not worked.

    Ok last evening swapped in the 100pf. Quite a change, more weight to the sound/ additional bass & mid-bass was the main thing. As this wasn't the best (quality) with the 470pf's, the change has emphasised this. The HF is just a bit quieter: this was expected just as you hinted it would be. I seem to have too much bass balance now.

    I've put on 8 hrs, so I'm hoping the quality of everything below the HF (which is very good) will settle in place, as it's rather hard & 'wooden' / cardboardy sounding at the mo. Top seems smooth enough & extra detail, but the rest is a bit uncultured dare I say a bit 'cheap-cartridge'. I've only had goldrings, denon dl110, & the Shelter up to now.. so this aspect I haven't had before. Sounds perhpas like a AT95 bog standard, with an upgraded top end.

    If this doesn't work out its no big deal & an interesting exercise. I think the ideal scenario might be the 201 with a microline.. but that's £250 2x too much for a stylus in my world. Hmm.

    Will update again. Thanks Capt
  18. The Captain

    The Captain ~~~~~~~~~~

    Head is very slightly tilted LHS up, but not noticeable when using it.

    I think mine is one if the earlier 20* angle heads (later were 22*) as with this cart stuck firm to where the 2 screws are, I couldn't get it perfectly set on the Origami guage,@ centrepoint of an Lp side. Moved arm back as much as I can, but still a tad off. On my Shelter I could swizzle it slightly, do up the screws.

    So I'm not 100% happy with both these set-up compromised details really.

  19. Craig B

    Craig B Re:trophile

    That doesn't look anything like as bad as I was imagining it to be, @The Captain.
  20. The Captain

    The Captain ~~~~~~~~~~

    Hi Craig, no I thought you might be assuming something appalling (such is the way on forums.. meaning is so often lost or grossly exaggerated) so I put pic up fir you. Actually this looks better than it is, ie you can't even see the gap.

    Anyway. One thing I notice, & read new info about ( never knew various materials used before you mentioning these new-to-me ML & SH stylus) is the cantilever material. So I read about alu, & next step up boron, even bafflingly exotic ruby etc.

    I've noticed 'boron' before, but never knew it referred to the cantilever ('Koetsu boron' for eg, doesn't tell me which bit is boron, so I might have fleetingly & naiively assumed it's the body).

    This one is not only alu, as expected in this £150 cart price, but 2x the width of my 201. Reminds me of budget ones I first had in 80's, an A&R c77 or so. As Im struggling with this 'hard/ wooden' 'cardboardy/ boxy' sound affecting all but the very decent HF area, I wonder if this largish alu cantilever might be responsible?

    Not conjecture, I ask this from a pov of having now read up about differing stiffness of a cantilever, & aluminium's "sonic weakness" in this regard.


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