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life in a PRAT-less world ?

No Greg, I would say it's relevant to the original discussion which did NOT include downloaded files.
 
No Greg, I would say it's relevant to the original discussion which did NOT include downloaded files.
Dave, could you explain this to me as I'm completely baffled.
Edit: sorry, I missed your reply to skiffle. No need now.
 
not all panning effects are for creating '3d stereo effects' some are purely to create more separation between instruments.
and as i have already stated they are not solely illusionary effects

Separation between instruments, the focus of one particular instrument or voice and 3D soundstaging are all illusory. The sound emerges from two speakers and is yet heard as something else. This is an illusion.
 
steven - you are wrong i do this stuf for real - you are misunderstanding how panning and stereo effects work.
do you understand the difference between headphone listening and normal stereo speaker listening?

there are various 'grade' of stereo ,aybe you should read up on the subject.

http://www.doramusic.com/index_blumlein.htm

and things like mono stereo blending.

why headphone stereo is different to speaker stereo etc etc.

then maybe i will explain how i can add depth to recordings or instruments and how this encoding is perceived......
 
I have a question gentlemen.

Example: preamp A reveals a more layered, defined (focused?) sense of instruments and staging vs preamp B. Can this difference *currently* be measured? If so, what is it?
 
You've impressed me with your recording technique prowess but still haven't understood what I mean by illusory regarding all stereo effects.

Yes I understand the difference between headphone and speaker stereo effects.
 
I have a question gentlemen.

Example: preamp A reveals a more layered, defined (focused?) sense of instruments and staging vs preamp B. Can this difference *currently* be measured? If so, what is it?

well you need to elaborate on what the pre amps are at least?
to me it sounds like you are getting separation of channels confused with the stereo or not, as maybe the case; sonic information on the recording.
maybe you can elaborate.....
 
You've impressed me with your recording technique prowess but still haven't understood what I mean by illusory regarding all stereo effects.

Yes I understand the difference between headphone and speaker stereo effects.

steven, what would a mono electric bassline sound like if panned slightly to the left of a stereo soundstage?
what what would the difference in sound be if the electric bassline was recorded via a stereo pair of mics but slightly closer to the left signal capsule?
 
I think someone is supposed to say that room accoustics and recording play the biggest role in "imaging". Then we go off in the usual Wikipedia type explanation that only rivals listening to a bad lecturer.

The Leaky Tap analogy was the most interesting part of this thread. Most PFM'ers got the tools out and went round the whole house checking.......purely in an effort to get some meaning or result in what was left of the day.
 
The perceived positioning would be largely the same but the latter would have perceived depth, the former would sound like a cardboard cut-out. Having said that the fundamental bass note would not be directional but the harmonics should give us the placement.
 
well you need to elaborate on what the pre amps are at least?
to me it sounds like you are getting separation of channels confused with the stereo or not, as maybe the case; sonic information on the recording.
maybe you can elaborate.....

Any Audio Research preamp for example allows you to almost "walk" between the performers whereas a typical Naim preamp is somewhat mechanical sounding in this respect with little or none of this three-dimensional effect. Can this one attribute be measured in isolation? If so, what is it?

regards,

dave
 
of course there isn't one attribute.
of course they will measures totally different too.

You may be right about there being more than one attribute involved and I'm sure it's measurable; however, is it *currently* measurable and can someone explain what it's comprised of?
 
there are lots of things effecting stereo separation.
crosstalk
distortion at low level signal
distortion from t.i.m.
channel matching accuracy
signal to noise
frequency response
all of these will have an impact on the stereo performance.
 
Darryl, why are you trying to score points? Please explain given that you are obviously the expert. I suspect you are dealing in shifting semantics though.
 
there are lots of things effecting stereo separation.
crosstalk
distortion at low level signal
distortion from t.i.m.
channel matching accuracy
signal to noise
frequency response
all of these will have an impact on the stereo performance.

I agree with all of your points above Darryl but is what I'm describing really under the heading of stereo separation? (the best way I can describe it as an illusion of "dimensionality" within the image)
 
no, it is the flavour of the amp designers sound - this is what i have been saying all along about these characteristics are imposed on top of the recorded signal.
this is why people have different compressors in studios for different jobs and sound scuplting - for example adding or removing 'prat' or spreading out stereo etc etc.
 
Wouldn't that require a magical circuit to be installed which can analyse, distinguish and accurately project the exact proportions and distances between instruments in various recording environments? If it were merely a set of colourations caused by distortion, the same sense of proportions and spacing would be imposed on every recording by the preamp which clearly isn't the case. Musician placement within the various halls they're recorded in sounds quite different from one recording to another on the ARC gear as expected.
 


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