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Life after Naim

Discussion in 'audio' started by cayorob, Nov 7, 2021.

  1. mbu

    mbu pfm Member

    Never heard a Supernait integrated but I'm sure they all very good indeed.
  2. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig ^'- -'^

    How can you be sure they are very good if you've never heard one?
  3. johnacurtis

    johnacurtis pfm Member

    Supernait 2 was excellent! But ultimately was bettered by adding a nap250dr, huge step up, then a hicapDR, small step up!
    But, then I changed direction and manufacturer.:)
  4. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig ^'- -'^

    A huge step up in sheep-think but for a normal person?
  5. mbu

    mbu pfm Member

    I cannot be 100 % sure.Not seen many negative comments on Supernaits over the years though. Only positive. Presumably lots of them sold.
    Brand reputation too.Would Naim produce an Integrated Amp at that price that sounded mediocre - or poor even ?
    Fair comment though- I've never heard one in action.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2021
    hairyderriere likes this.
  6. John Phillips

    John Phillips pfm Member

    I thought it perfectly fathomable. That people enjoy something is not in doubt but my observation is that how they rationalize this may owe a lot more to intangible influences than to the tangible reasons they put forward. This is no criticism - just an observation of what seems to be perfectly normal for human beings, whose values as I observe them, are often more driven by their philosophies and beliefs than by some form of rational logic.

    With HiFi, I suspect people often feel the need to rationalize because it's really a luxury purchase these days. I have other "luxury" hobbies where it has become clear that trying to rationalize why I spend money on them is pointless - I just enjoy them and coming up with a rational explanation is unnecessary. It is gradually becoming the same for me with HiFi after having long thought that my purchases needed to be rationally explained.
    gustav_errata and Mr Pig like this.
  7. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig ^'- -'^

    Yes, I get that and I agree, but the thrust of his post was that Naim buyers do not value technical performance. They may be mistaken about the relative performance of some Naim kit but I think it's wrong to say they do not value performance. Other factors may indeed cloud their judgment but for most Naim buyers performance is their overriding motivation.
    gustav_errata likes this.
  8. Mike Hughes

    Mike Hughes pfm Member

    Always aspired to a Naim separates system having first seen and heard the olive series. When I finally got there it was great. Hours and hours of music listening which is ultimately the point. However, the system exposed the speakers (ES11s) and the move to high sensitivity has meant a gradual move away from Naim. That’s partly that as I’ve got older my ears craved a rhythmic but more relaxed sound; partly because I don’t believe current Naim sources deliver the same house sound as either the olive or classic series; partly because more boxes means more maintenance, issues and servicing and partly a more general desire for less boxes.

    Moved to an Innuos/Chord source more by accident than design. It’s different but way more detailed and relaxed whilst retaining the PRaT. I have retained my 200/202 etc. for now but there’s an obvious impedance mismatch so I see myself moving to tubes in due course.

    I find current Naim sources to have a little more soundstage than previous iterations and there’s a lot more timbral accuracy but overall I find them less engaging. I’ve never yet had an NDX2 hold my attention for more than a song for example whereas my current source regularly keeps me up to 1am. I do think their new all in ones are on pairs a good choice for lots of people but I also think that they’ve not quite mastered the UI. Their screens fur example are more expensive and do far less with less flexibility than many other manufacturers.

    I think they’ve largely retained their expertise when it comes to amplification but for needs the cable dressing and upgrade paths are tiresome and I’ve had loans of Naits and a Supernait which were easier to use and in many senses far more musical. I’m not sure about the Supernait 3 but the 2 is an excellent piece of kit by any standards.

    All that says, the idea that they are now solely a lifestyle product is laughable.
    johnacurtis and Mr Pig like this.
  9. h.g.

    h.g. Retired

    The notion that those that value technical performance will have anything other than mild curiosity about Naim is bordering on the silly. They are expensive boutique luxury products designed to appeal to non-technical consumers. Some of their deviations from competent technical performance were used as marketing hooks in the early days as was the deification of a person without a technical background. There is of course nothing wrong with any of this given they are different market sectors with minimal overlap.

    We all normally opt for what we perceive as the highest performance for the money. It would be rather strange if we did not. What created that high perceived performance for Naim-type products in the eyes of some non-technical people was both unusual and effective in the early days but became more common and widespread over the following decades. Technical performance and perceived performance are different things with a fair few audiophiles being uninterested in technical performance. No problems unless you start confusing the two.
    gustav_errata likes this.
  10. deserter

    deserter pfm Member

    I got on the Naim train in the mid 1970’s with an NAC12 snaps and 160, truly lovely and light years ahead of what it replaced. I was then lucky enough to buy direct from the factory a battered old and possibly not standard bolt top 250 they had laying around , possibly the best amp I ever owned until recently.

    after that I got the upgrade bug and frankly I wish I hadn’t. Lots of boxes, lots of money, but never got as good as that early system although more superficially detailed and in yer face.

    I think that’s why these threads exist - lots of people got disappointed the further up the ladder they went, but it was almost like a religion to escape. Not helped by dealers who said nothing else compared.

    that probably sounds curmudgeonly- Naim is a fine company and I suspect their current stuff sounds good, but I’ve moved on. I was persuaded about 15 years ago to try Dynavector amplification - it made me realise there are different approaches to sounds, and you don’t need a huge pile of boxes.

    I still have an olive Nait 2 in my second system and it’s lovely. Much better than a Nait 3, oddly .
    wiresandmore, TLS and johnacurtis like this.
  11. musfed

    musfed pfm Member

    I stayed in the Naim loop for quite some time.
    Started with a Nait2, and ended at 82/hi/250 level with some shoeboxes in between. Also used a very fine cd2.
    All changed going active to the Dutch & Dutch 8c's fed by a Bluesound Node 2.
    Knipester likes this.
  12. jobseeker

    jobseeker pfm Member

    Frankly, I just enjoy changing my kit from time to time. I don’t do micro comparisons as to whether it’s a marginal improvement. Obviously I wouldnt buy stuff I didn’t like the sound of. I’m happy for it to be ‘different’.
  13. suzywong

    suzywong Wot, no electrons?

    At my age, I cannot be arsed with all the bullshit spouted here.

    I think I’ll just go and buy myself another XPS.

    thank you, and good night:p
  14. ncp

    ncp pfm Member

    Very interesting James... I'm contemplating a valve pre-amp at some point - how would you describe the differences in sound between (say) your NAC-52 and the Copland?
  15. Richard Lines

    Richard Lines pfm Member

    Good Afternoon All,

    Have never got on with Naim sources myself, does that make me a heretic? As for their speakers.........................

    I continue to find that my current set-up performs better as the source/ front end improves. In my case this includes going from an Akurate DS/3 in to a SNAXO 3-6 then an Akurate Exactbox then substituting the streamer for the Klimax DS/3.

    I don't know if I have the inclination, time or money to start extensive experimentation with the 6 power amplifiers I have currently. If it ain't broke then don't fix it. Are there "better' amplifiers out there? Very probably but there are more important things to worry about.

    I do keep looking at going the Avondale route but with the 6 amplifiers this isn't a cheap experiment.

    I don't think I'll be looking at 'Life after Naim'.


    Mr Pig likes this.
  16. chord

    chord pfm Member

    I was a hardcore Naimee and finally had CDS2/82/SC/135s/SBL.
    Many boxes and wires.
    And permanent upgraditis (means constant dissatisfaction).
    One morning I decided to get rid of slavery and sold them.

    Now ML512 and Heed blocks with a BBC monitors. No any change since 2015.
    CDs arriving.

    Naim sound now?
    mega lord likes this.
  17. James

    James Lord of the Erg\o/s

    I have never compared them directly, and it's been at least 15 years since I parted company with the NAC52.

    That being said, I really like the Copland CTA-301 - now that I'm rolling with a few sets of vintage valves, some of which are older than me.
  18. ncp

    ncp pfm Member

    Thanks James...

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