Lazy, or what?

[abbydog]

When I embarked on this hobby – if collecting consumer electronics can be considered a hobby – part of the attraction was in assembling a collection of components which produced results that were, if you like, greater than the sum of the parts.

Dealers were valuable in helping guide this process – they had access to and experience of a broad range of products and good combinations would sell. Finding good combinations also provided a useful role for magazines.

Some combinations of kit from different makers became legendary – some still are and some are still as good as anything out there. But we don’t hear about too many new ones these days.

Sadly, the mix-and-match of solution was progressively replaced by the upgrade path, the one make system and it is an evolution which continues today in the one box, or fewer boxes, solutions.

I believe this approach to have resulted in fundamentally lazy consumers and dealers – and worse sound with a kind of end-of-the-rainbow promise which isn’t often met. And manufacturers who improbably do everything to state-of-the-art standards.

Outlets which have become dependent on the products of one manufacturer can reduce stocking, standardise patter and establish routines. The financial performance of the business becomes more predictable. Customers simply save up, pop out to hear the next box and then buy it because it’s ‘better’ in a kind of race to the top – all in a ‘protected’ environment in which there is a consensus between buyer and seller about what is ‘best’ - reinforced as necessary by dedicated forums.

This mitigates against either customers or dealers exposing themselves to alternatives. Both face increased costs and difficulty if they acknowledge that alternatives may be better. If equipment is unusual enough in sound, all alternatives may be heard as worse.

Much equipment has moved away from the boast of being universal in application, which was once a selling point.

I don’t think this situation serves either businesses or the consumer well. It has deskilled dealers and makes for lazy customers who go the default safe route.

Most of all, it makes online purchasing almost as sure a thing as a trip to the dealer.

 

[Purité Audio]

I beleive there is more audio equipment available than ever before, some retailers stick to the well known or heavily marketed for exactly those reasons!
Also resale values come in to play which tends to reinforce the above.
Keith.

 

[Daniel Quinn]

Thanks to the distance selling regulations , you can mix and match in your own home till your heart is content .

This is a golden period for the hifi enthusiast , unshackled from myth and marketing ideology and dodgy dealers there as never been an easier time to try for yourself and make up your own mind.

 

[zarniwoop]

I think a lot of the encouragement for a mix and match approach came from manufacturers who only made one thing... a record deck, or an amp. Once these manufacturers grew to the point where they could offer complete systems they tended to prefer the "one manufacturer synergy" approach. Overly cynical?

 

[ssimon]

The main thing that has changed (since last century) is that there are more toys for boys to spend their money on.
Also, I believe that the younger generation (I'm 63) are used to inferior sound (the i-pod generation) and value convenience (OK they're lazy) over sound quality.

 

[Joe Hutch]

The main thing that has changed (since last century) is that there are more toys for boys to spend their money on.
Also, I believe that the younger generation (I'm 63) are used to inferior sound (the i-pod generation) and value convenience (OK they're lazy) over sound quality.

I grew up listening to transistor radios and Dansette record players, and I'll bet iPods sound at least as good as them.

 

[Joe Hutch]

Thanks to the distance selling regulations , you can mix and match in your own home till your heart is content .

This is a golden period for the hifi enthusiast , unshackled from myth and marketing ideology and dodgy dealers there as never been an easier time to try for yourself and make up your own mind.

I remember asking a dealer if I could compare two record decks, a Michell and a Rega. 'There's no point, the Rega is clearly better' was his response. I didn't like being told what to think, so took my custom elsewhere.

 

[abbydog]

Not sure - I think the younger generation have it pretty well sussed. Some of the tube/headphone systems out there are extremely good - have a look at the Woo stuff for example. Was quite bemused once by a preference for high bitrate mp3 over CD but after some extensive listening over cans the penny sort-of dropped.

A lot of music which is attacked for its production today is heard out of context.

Many of the good headphone systems out there are remarkable and they cost a dammed sight less than the big rigs many of us run.

The accommodation issues and lifestyles of younger people today make alternative solutions mandatory - the joy is they are finding them, just as we did at their age.

 

[ssimon]

A lot of music which is attacked for its production today is heard out of context.

I agree, I've always thought that the only music worth listening to digitally, is produced by a computer (drum machines etc.).
Instuments, including un Protooled voice, sound better in analogue.

 

[formbypc]

A lot of music which is attacked for its production today is heard out of context.

What's the proper 'context' ..?

 

[Tony L]

Sadly, the mix-and-match of solution was progressively replaced by the upgrade path, the one make system and it is an evolution which continues today in the one box, or fewer boxes, solutions.

I believe this approach to have resulted in fundamentally lazy consumers and dealers – and worse sound with a kind of end-of-the-rainbow promise which isn’t often met. And manufacturers who improbably do everything to state-of-the-art standards

I don't agree at all. I'd argue we are now living in a far better and more enlightened age where, thanks to the widespread sharing of knowledge on the internet etc, many folk are very much thinking for themselves and enjoy mixing, matching, even designing and building the very best cutting-edge technology along with timeless classics from the past 60+ years of audio. To my mind it echoes the democratisation that has happened within music where everything is available simultaneously - there are no longer dominant genres, everything coexists with everything else and is all there for the enthusiast to uncover and enjoy. The days of gurus and teachers is over, it is more than ever the time to dive in and enjoy thinking for yourself. It is all there for the taking.

 

[Darmok]

^ Spot on.

When I entered the frey it was simply "The Big Three."

Leak, Quad & Radford, with Sugden, Rogers and Armsrong nipping at their heels!

Happy Days.

Edit:Top Turntables were covered by Garrard & Thorens.

 

[abbydog]

I don't agree at all. I'd argue we are now living in a far better and more enlightened age where, thanks to the widespread sharing of knowledge on the internet etc, many folk are very much thinking for themselves and enjoy mixing, matching, even designing and building the very best cutting-edge technology along with timeless classics from the past 60+ years of audio. To my mind it echoes the democratisation that has happened within music where everything is available simultaneously - there are no longer dominant genres, everything coexists with everything else and is all there for the enthusiast to uncover and enjoy. The days of gurus and teachers is over, it is more than ever the time to dive in and enjoy thinking for yourself. It is all there for the taking.

I hope you are right about better and more enlightened but do agree about diving in and enjoying thinking for yourself...

 

[Evil Emperor]

I don't agree at all. I'd argue we are now living in a far better and more enlightened age where, thanks to the widespread sharing of knowledge on the internet etc, many folk are very much thinking for themselves and enjoy mixing, matching, even designing and building the very best cutting-edge technology along with timeless classics from the past 60+ years of audio. To my mind it echoes the democratisation that has happened within music where everything is available simultaneously - there are no longer dominant genres, everything coexists with everything else and is all there for the enthusiast to uncover and enjoy. The days of gurus and teachers is over, it is more than ever the time to dive in and enjoy thinking for yourself. It is all there for the taking.

Sounds a bit 'Cultural Revolution' to me.

Personally, I think the information age is not a new age of enlightenment. Information without understanding is just noise. Presented with all the options but no steering, people don't tend think for themselves... they go all 'tyranny of choice', panic and either buy nothing or go for the default option.

That isn't good, low cost audio equipment and sure as hell isn't vintage kit - it's things like the Beats Pill.

By ridding ourselves of gurus and teachers, we rid ourselves of the good as well as the bad. The bad people who take the simple option and charge us a fortune in the process need to go away, but those who provide a genuine service should not be caught up in the same tsunami. Sadly, I think they are being swept aside.

Edit: I'm also not convinced we are getting rid of gurus and teachers. All we're doing is replacing them with people who are prepared to post the most. Our new gurus just shout louder.

 

[merlin]

I wonder if the age of choice results in more happiness or simply more dissatisfaction.

 

[kasperhauser]

I wonder if the age of choice results in more happiness or simply more dissatisfaction.

One psychologist takes on the "paradox of choice". One of the better TED Talks I've seen.

http://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_choice.html

 

[Tony L]

Personally, I think the information age is not a new age of enlightenment. Information without understanding is just noise. Presented with all the options but no steering, people don't tend think for themselves... they go all 'tyranny of choice', panic and either buy nothing or go for the default option.

That isn't good, low cost audio equipment and sure as hell isn't vintage kit - it's things like the Beats Pill.

To my mind low-cost audio is all about the second hand market, rediscovering Lencos and building them into something really special, speaker design software, woodwork, T-Amps, the collective sharing of amplifier designs, group buys, refoam kits etc etc etc. The sharing and distribution of knowledge in a way that people can get great sound without ridiculous expense or risk. It's the ideology upon which this site is built, and no, it's nothing new - it's how hi-fi worked in the 1950s and 60s with information distributed via magazines and local audio societies. Site like Audio Aasylum, AudioKarma, WigWam, pfm etc just scale it all up to a global level.

Ok, sure, I'm talking about enthusiasts here rather than entry level consumer / high st end of the market. I acknowledge that, and also that there is a real problem getting young folk interested these days, but that is industry-wide problem beyond headphone listening. By saying that the headphone crowd really do get it - you only need to spend a few hours on HeadFi to realise how seriously the subject is taken. It's a great forum and you'll find a very similar vibe to what we have here with people endlessly tweaking headphone amps, DACs etc etc. There just seems to be a bit of an issue these days as for some reason many folk don't seem to aspire to making the transition to full-range sound in the home rather than the middle of the head.

PS I'd very much like to see a lot more more headphone action on pfm as I view them as the 'bridge drug' - get folk hooked there and the transition to high-quality full-range sound in the home can't be too much of a leap away, surely? I love headphones, they are very good things indeed, but I'd still always want my big full range speakers as well.

 

[cooky1257]

The young lass in my charge got some cute pink Beats solo's for her birthday, I sneaked a listen the other day expecting the bass heavy droning mid muted presentation they are infamous for among hifi buffs..guess what? they sounded really quite good, musical, played a tune well, coloured a bit in the way they picked out parts of the mix that grooved along but yer know what?, that wasn't bad at all.

 

[Evil Emperor]

To my mind low-cost audio is all about the second hand market, rediscovering Lencos and building them into something really special, speaker design software, woodwork, T-Amps, the collective sharing of amplifier designs, group buys, refoam kits etc etc etc. The sharing and distribution of knowledge in a way that people can get great sound without ridiculous expense or risk. It's the ideology upon which this site is built, and no, it's nothing new - it's how hi-fi worked in the 1950s and 60s with information distributed via magazines and local audio societies. Site like Audio Aasylum, AudioKarma, WigWam, pfm etc just scale it all up to a global level.

Ok, sure, I'm talking about enthusiasts here rather than entry level consumer / high st end of the market. I acknowledge that, and also that there is a real problem getting young folk interested these days, but that is industry-wide problem beyond headphone listening. By saying that the headphone crowd really do get it - you only need to spend a few hours on HeadFi to realise how seriously the subject is taken. It's a great forum and you'll find a very similar vibe to what we have here with people endlessly tweaking headphone amps, DACs etc etc. There just seems to be a bit of an issue these days as for some reason many folk don't seem to aspire to making the transition to full-range sound in the home rather than the middle of the head.

PS I'd very much like to see a lot more more headphone action on pfm as I view them as the 'bridge drug' - get folk hooked there and the transition to high-quality full-range sound in the home can't be too much of a leap away, surely? I love headphones, they are very good things indeed, but I'd still always want my big full range speakers as well.

But what we had in the past was a great deal of consensus, based on a relatively limited pool of products, with people who understood what they had to work with on a fairly deep level, and with a continuation of the 'make do and mend' culture of WWII.

That's all but disappeared now in all walks of life. Instead we now have a profusion of different products vying for our attentions, with people who only have a surface understanding of their function and a disposable culture we borrowed from the 'what have you done for me lately?' culture of modern computing.

With a few exceptions, I don't think anyone (including audio forums) is doing a good job of disseminating information anymore. With forums, this is because they provide inherently unmoderated information. There is no consensus, and certainly no common consensus between the forums. Someone trying to broaden their hi-fi understanding by following the comments made here and on Audio Asylum (for example) are going to end up with a system that might just pass for chaotic. But you can guarantee it won't sound good.

 

[Tony L]

But what we had in the past was a great deal of consensus, based on a relatively limited pool of products, with people who understood what they had to work with on a fairly deep level, and with a continuation of the 'make do and mend' culture of WWII.

That's all but disappeared now in all walks of life. Instead we now have a profusion of different products vying for our attentions, with people who only have a surface understanding of their function and a disposable culture we borrowed from the 'what have you done for me lately?' culture of modern computing.

Who says consensus is a good thing or even remotely desirable? I've never been one to appreciate being herded by anyone towards anything. I see no right or wrong paths to take in audio, only options to research and enjoy, history and technology to understand etc. At present I seem to have ended up enjoying huge efficient vintage speakers and little vintage amps combined with very modern digital / computer source components and a record deck that combines both vintage and modern components. I'd never preach that as "the answer" to anything - it is no more or less valid than selecting mini-monitors with a huge amp, active studio monitors, electrostatics, or any number of other possibilities, even an iPod and headphones. Forums such as this one help to present all such options and paths that may not have occurred to people, and do so with many disparate voices. I like that. Once folk find something that interests them then they are able to drill down and find some useful very useful advice and experience to tap into. Most folk are like me and not trying to sell anyone any specific path or ideology at all, but if someone needs to know how to put say a TD-124 or Lenco back together, then I may well be able to help! That's how forums work. The breadth of experience, diversity and lack of consensus is actually the greatest strength.