The difficulty I have with pc's is that their response is context sensitive. Fail to check one box, dot one i, cross one t, you get no notification but it doesn't work. Because they are sealed box devices a novice has no clue what has failed to happen. This is what computer savvy people fail to appreciate when giving out instructions. Things that seem obvious really are not. Computers do not follow logic the way that their aficionados believe they do because they have been built by a human being and people who design user interface systems have their own idiosyncrasie s and are not as logical as they like to think they are.
Laptop for £500?
- Thread starter foxwelljsly
- Start date
Darth Vader
From the Dark Side
Thats poor advice. If anyone would like to try Linux to see if its for them I would suggest that they download Linux Mint iso and 'burn' it to a small USB stick. It will boot 'live' i.e. no installation required. You can then play with it and see if its for you. If you have a Windows installation and you also feel that Linux is worth using you can shrink the Windows partition = easy and Mint will ask you if you want to keep Windows and will install along side of it. You then have both worlds and can easily revert back any time if you so wish.
Me? My main O/S is Mint but I still use Windows and macOS all on the same PC. But then its a retirement hobby and I help my local community with free service when their computers go west and too expensive to repair.
Cheers,
DV
Darth Vader
From the Dark Side
Computers are logical machines and do exactly what they are told. However US language is in itself confusing. Words as ever mean what someone wants them to mean. The hours I have spent just to find that the manual was after all correct once you understand how the damn thing works. Its not the computer but the people who code and write these manuals.
I am bright but have struggled with Apple manuals. I know that what I want to do is possible but the manuals are utterly useless. Eventually I leant how to decipher the 'code'. In a nutshell those who write this stuff don't understand the subject.
Cheers,
DV
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
Quite the opposite in fact, they know too much, and are too close to the subject they are writing about, and are too familiar with the cryptic (to outsiders) nomenclature. This means, what they write uses odd language, and makes assumptions about prior knowledge.
PaulMB
pfm Member
Well, I was suggesting to Mike the simplest, most direct thing to do. He already got bogged down trying to re-size, so a clean, total install seems easier. Also, although I've done dozens of installations from DVD, I just installed Kubuntu from a USB stick for the first time, since my new/used laptop has no DVD drive. It was a bit tricky, because you have to format the USB stick in Fat32, then find a programme that will copy the "iso" image so that it is bootable. This may be child's play to you, but it took me several hours to learn to do it. Burning the "iso" image to a DVD is more straightforward. Also, why should he bother with the added complication of dual-boot? He has a new laptop with Windows. I'm trying to reason in terms of Mike doing it successfully with as few complications as possible. What seems dead simple to you may be mysterious and complicated for Mike. Or for anyone who has not done it, or thought about doing it, before.
Darth Vader
From the Dark Side
It is very easy:-
1. Download iso https://linuxmint.com/download.php
2. Download and install Etcher https://www.techspot.com/downloads/6931-etcher.html
3. 'Burn' iso to USB stick https://linuxmint-installation-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/burn.html
4. Boot from USB stick https://linuxmint-installation-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/boot.html In Mikes case its the F12 key as I mentioned above.
About 15 mins of your time plus the download/burn/boot time. You can then have a play and see what its all about. Of course it will run slowly over the USB port and thumb drive but will zip along from a HD/SSD. Its perky on an old T.60.
If you do decide to install Mint and Windows is already present Linux Mint detects it and builds a menu from which you can choose which system to boot. To shrink Windows use disk management as discussed above. After the shrink report just accept the defaults and windows will shrink and you will have the space available for Linux. If in the future you want to go back then delete the Linux partitions within Windows O/S then use the expand option in disk management to get back to where you were originally.
Its all straight forward if the steps are followed one by one. What I have noticed is that people that I have watched tend to get distracted and don't follow the steps precisely and I have to stop them otherwise they get in a pickle and a 5 min job soon becomes an hour of frustration. Why is this?
The advantage of keeping Windows on the machine is that you'll have access to your data from Mint i.e. you can share it between both O/S.
I have used many flavours of Linux since Red Hat onwards but I think that Mint is probably the best all rounder for the average user. I have a couple of OAPs using it without any problems on what were previously old Vista machines. Of course I did set the machines up but operationally they are fine. Once set up you can often run Windows applications like games but unfortunately Office doesn't work - well not out of the box. I find LibreOffice can do all that I need even complex stuff in 'Excel'. I prefer it to Office 2019 Pro that I also have but can't be bothered to fight.
Cheers,
DV
PaulMB
pfm Member
Hello Darth,
All just shows how different we can be. I tried Mint a few years back, did not feel comfortable with it. Went back to Kubuntu and used it ever since. I think they are both Debian-based. I tried straight Debian a few times, but got irritated with having to find and install the wireless drivers separately.
For me, doing it for the first time the other day, burning the "iso" to the USB stick was not as easy as burning it to a DVD. The K3b programme I normally use does not do USBs. Also, the USB stick has to be formatted and at some point made "bootable," which took me a few tries. Eventually did it with a programme called "UNetbootir". But, as I say, it was the first time, so all new to me.
Paul
All just shows how different we can be. I tried Mint a few years back, did not feel comfortable with it. Went back to Kubuntu and used it ever since. I think they are both Debian-based. I tried straight Debian a few times, but got irritated with having to find and install the wireless drivers separately.
For me, doing it for the first time the other day, burning the "iso" to the USB stick was not as easy as burning it to a DVD. The K3b programme I normally use does not do USBs. Also, the USB stick has to be formatted and at some point made "bootable," which took me a few tries. Eventually did it with a programme called "UNetbootir". But, as I say, it was the first time, so all new to me.
Paul
PaulMB
pfm Member
No. Windows is a distraction. Linux, especially the many user-friendly distros that have been around for the past 10 years at least, are easier to manage than Windows and provide all the services that Windows does, without the complications of licences and updates popping up all the time. I think Autocad is the only important thing that will not run on Linux, and the various Linux equivalents are not as sophisticated as full Autocad. I know this because my wife is an architect and wishes she could use Linux, but can't. I deduce that you do not have any experience, or limited and very old, of Linux.
garyi
leave blank
No linux is a pain in the arse
Linux could be great if they all just stopped and had a think about it and one good OS came out of it, instead of the millions of forks which is a ,ess for the consumer.
PaulMB
pfm Member
In reality there are just 4 or 5 different flavours that are widely used. And even there it is the same basic OS with different graphics. But you evidently do not have much familiarity with Linux. And if you prefer Windows, with its user tracking, its patches and upgrades, its one-size-fits all philosophy, its pressure to establish a virtual monopoly, then that's fine with me.
mikemusic
pfm Member
Once I am certain the new one is perfect, but most importantly have loads of time and willpower I could give that a go.
Bearing n mind this will be a spare - What are the main benefits ?
garyi
leave blank
Come on Paul, you can do better than that, they are all at it!
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/ubuntu-data-collection/
I use linux all the time, servers etc, as a desktop na, I'll take windows (or Mac OS)
foxwelljsly
Me too, I ate one sour too.
Not yet. Will probably drop a bit less on an i7 Lenovo X250 with SSD.
My sons Think book is pretty good.
foxwelljsly
Me too, I ate one sour too.
Highly unimaginatively I realised that I really like the X250 I have for work and decided a matching one would look neat in the office. They’re also tiny, unbreakable and I have a hoard of mega batteries for them.
The best thing about Apple laptops is their trackpads, and that’s just not worth the premium. I have tried Linux, but didn’t get on with it. I’m sure it’s ace, but I just don’t have the time or the energy to familiarise myself with another OS. That said, I might stick it on the old MacBook to have a play.
Hazelberry
sister
Read the article again and you'll see that you can opt out during installation and via system settings.
garyi
leave blank
As with apple and microsoft although microsoft do still threaten to target a few ads at you.
i just think we need to stop the bullshit. If you want to be a member of the linux board you have to pay half a million a year, all of these operating systems have people running them and all people on this green earth have a vested interest to increase their own worth.
linux is at most ok as an operating system, it offers nothing windows or mac does not offer and the tosh about privacy is bollocks, however you will gain points if you have no form of smart phone and you dont post on public forums.
i just think we need to stop the bullshit. If you want to be a member of the linux board you have to pay half a million a year, all of these operating systems have people running them and all people on this green earth have a vested interest to increase their own worth.
linux is at most ok as an operating system, it offers nothing windows or mac does not offer and the tosh about privacy is bollocks, however you will gain points if you have no form of smart phone and you dont post on public forums.