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Labour to abolish independent schools?

Should we abolish independent schools in the UK?

  • Yes

    Votes: 20 24.7%
  • No

    Votes: 57 70.4%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 4.9%

  • Total voters
    81
Was it your intention to come across as a complete cvnt with that post, if so congratulations.
Thanks. It was touch and go whether I would achieve it, so your reassurance is gratifying.

Two points. Boris Johnson. And of those who were critical of the post, how many have privately educated their kids? Perhaps we can have a separate thread solely dedicated to willy-waving their achievements?
 
Thanks. It was touch and go whether I would achieve it, so your reassurance is gratifying.

Two points. Boris Johnson. And of those who were critical of the post, how many have privately educated their kids? Perhaps we can have a separate thread solely dedicated to willy-waving their achievements?
Considering most people here don't think private schools should be abolished, I do not envisage there will be too much support for you on this issue!
 
Considering most people here don't think private schools should be abolished, I do not envisage there will be too much support for you on this issue!
I'm not sure they should be abolished, and one mans elevating the talentless to the semblance of talented is another mans miraculous achieving of potential against all the odds.

Nevertheless...

The toxicity is the networking, the old boys network, the assumption that their excrescence is a mysteriously gifted elite who should have preferential access to jobs, governance and money, as though by divine right.

But when the Emperors Clothes are exposed, as with cameron and more lately with rees- mog and the johnson, you have to concede the system is sick and a self perpetuating sham.

I don't think you can divorce the education from the subsequent actions of those so educated. I'm also sure there will be those on here who disagree.
 
Yes I have put three children through private.

Child 1. State til 8. Then Hockey scholarship, Clifton College resulting in England U21s hockey team. Now tax ayingb NHS physio Cardiff


Child 2. State til 12. Bullying, exclusion. Underperformance. Grandparents plus me made choice to cash in pensions, savings (all tax paid). To put her private. Result. First from Liverpool. Masters from Glasgow (3d visualisation and antatomy). Now: just started technician role with Academy of surgeons and Glasgow Uni.

Child 3. Middling academically median ergo lost in state til year 5. Removed and placed independent with music bursary and family funds. Now thriving.

When you actually have kids, you will (generally) do what you can to give them best chance.

It’s not some dinky left/right idealism politics game.

No. That is not evidence that 'the majority of children attending private schools are from ordinary backgrounds.' On the contrary, it is only is evidence that if you have savings, pension pots and grandparents with sufficient funds you are in the very fortunate position of having choices. To assume that the majority are in your fortunate position is just wrong.

I do actually have kids and I deeply resent the rather pompous (general) implication that I have not done all I can to give them the best chance, the bald fact of the matter was that for me, as a teacher with no savings, rich parents or grandparents, no access to a pension (at that time) and paying most of my disposable income to an ex wife, paying private school fees was quite simply not an option.

Many people are in positions far worse than mine, so I wait for evidence to support the assertion that 'the majority of children attending private schools are from ordinary backgrounds' with interest.

I applaud you for the choices you've made, and I'm sure they've not come without personal sacrifice, but your post is evidence of nothing except that it is your own personal good fortune and position that has facilitated those choices.
 
One obstacle to solving problems of inequality and deprivation is always going to be thin-skinned people taking things personally. "We should eliminate hunger! No child should be going to school hungry!" "Oi I gave my children breakfast this morning are you calling me a c___?"
 
One obstacle to solving problems of inequality and deprivation is always going to be thin-skinned people taking things personally. "We should eliminate hunger! No child should be going to school hungry!" "Oi I gave my children breakfast this morning are you calling me a c___?"
Actually it seems more thick skinned than thin, it more “Oi, I gave my children a very nice breakfast in the conservatory overlooking the estate this morning, why can’t everybody?”
 
Actually it seems more thick skinned than thin, it more “Oi, I gave my children a very nice breakfast in the conservatory overlooking the estate this morning, why can’t everybody?”

In all your posts in this thread you come over as mean, vindictive,spiteful and resentful. You seem like someone with a huge chip on your shoulder. Do you mean to do that?

If you do could you just stick to posting in the Brexit thread ( where it is the norm to be so ) this conversation was a pleasure until you chipped in with your "burn down the world".
 
Two points. Boris Johnson. And of those who were critical of the post, how many have privately educated their kids? Perhaps we can have a separate thread solely dedicated to willy-waving their achievements?

Two kids were my responsibility and both achieved well despite attending state schools.

I would have found the cash for private education somehow if required.

Must confess to cheating a bit through long evenings helping with homework.

My biological daughter went to one of the worst comps in Scotland; virtually no boys stayed beyond standard grades. She received death threats and the main social life was hanging out drinking White Lightning.

Luckily her mother was a great parent and we colluded regularly.
 
Tug that forelock, know your place, respect your betters. How dare the common people question why a school funded and attended by the progeny of the wealthy should enjoy charitable status, there's privilege and then there's taking the piss( oh and cheating by sitting easier A Levels....)
 
Ask yourself this question.

Why is it in a country as affluent as this that only people who are able pay can get a decent education for their children and secondly why is it the more you pay the better that 'education' is?

It is nonsense that only people who pay can get a decent education. The majority of the well educated people in this country came through the State system.

On you second point...why is it that the more you pay the better the car,hifi,house,clothes,I-could-go-on-but-you-get-my-drift do you get?
Because if it really was just about education then why make it so difficult for the vast majority to have access to a proper one.

They ( who are they ?) they don't.


I'm not knocking the whole comprehensive school system because I'm sure that there are many great schools and thousands of fantastic teachers out there but why is it the exception rather than the rule?

I don't think it is the exception....State schools are producing more and more graduates. People seem to be hung up on a very few elite schools where you, admittedly, need a hell of an income to send your children . But the rest of the education system is not the hopeless helpless cesspit that people are ( fatalistically ) making it out to be.

I don't understand all of the 'hate the rich' attitude that prevails in these threads. This is an audio/hifi forum and what you don't get is endless posts along the lines of " Oi, you ****er !.. you ought to be kicked to death/ strung up/ f*cking ashamed spending all that money on that elitist sh*t when there are ................."

Why is that ?

Why is it ok to go on and on and on with the class warrior shtick..the "I'm so right-on my teeth hurt " ...be a rude as you like to people about everything except hifi ?

There are people on her with turntables that cost over £20,000.... lets give them what for ?
 
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One obstacle to solving problems of inequality and deprivation is always going to be thin-skinned people taking things personally. "We should eliminate hunger! No child should be going to school hungry!" "Oi I gave my children breakfast this morning are you calling me a c___?"
That only works if person B had not said something in context before. But in most cases on pfm, someone says something, then someone else makes a slur, using generalising sentence structures as defence.

It might wash with you. But it doesn't with me. You are very keen on associating people with racism on comments that are miles away from being racist. Yet you don't see a connection here.

What he said makes absolutely no sense and it was offensive. But you are not bothered.
 
But the private schools have much higher costs... they are attempting ( in their eyes ) to turn out a superior product. If you remove charitable status and then make them take 50% state school children and only pay them the state school rate per child they will go bankrupt.But I think you know that. If you want rid of them then just ban them.

It seems likely to me that the rich will pay to keep them going simply because of the badge it will give to their young. But if not, I won't weep a lot.

Having taught at Uni for years - in a Uni with a high fraction of its intake from 'public' schools - I can't say their output is significantly cleverer, etc, than the rest. Often their main strength is in confidence and being able to blather their way though. But of course your experience may differ.

So I'm happy to use them, rather than have them use the rest of us, and would prefer to see them survive on that sort of basis. But if they can't, I won't shed tears.
 
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Tug that forelock, know your place, respect your betters. How dare the common people question why a school funded and attended by the progeny of the wealthy should enjoy charitable status, there's privilege and then there's taking the piss( oh and cheating by sitting easier A Levels....)

If it had no charitable status you would still hate it.

You would just find another reason.
 
It's the ones that do fluffy stuff about the past that you need to look out for.

Boris - Classics
Michael - English Literature
Jacob - Classics
Daniel - History

That's where the public school approach scores. Topics where rhetoric, blarney, and a confident air when talking spheriods can be useful. :)
 
And servants gonna serve!

I’m completely independent thanks, I serve no one bar my own customers!

Sadly, as ever, the far-left is just as authoritarian and dictatorial as the far-right. Both extremes always result in the suppression of personal choice and removal of civil liberty. As stated previously I firmly believe in progressive taxation, closing tax loop-holes etc, and folk who have the intellect, creativity, skills or luck to do well paying their way and helping building national infrastructure in which we can all be proud (including education, obviously), but beyond that the state should not dictate how you spend your money. If that really is what this Labour party stands for it is just as repugnant in its 1970s class warriorism and politics of envy as the Tories are in their elitist tax-fiddling and trough-feeding. Both are just obsolete shite as far as many of us are concerned. I am neither landed gentry nor am I a mill worker, so both dinosaurs still rooted in that timeframe are beyond irrelevant to me.

PS I have already (with the caveat of special needs provision) stated I believe charitable status should be removed.
 
Yes I have put three children through private.

Child 1. State til 8. Then Hockey scholarship, Clifton College resulting in England U21s hockey team. Now tax ayingb NHS physio Cardiff


Child 2. State til 12. Bullying, exclusion. Underperformance. Grandparents plus me made choice to cash in pensions, savings (all tax paid). To put her private. Result. First from Liverpool. Masters from Glasgow (3d visualisation and antatomy). Now: just started technician role with Academy of surgeons and Glasgow Uni.

Child 3. Middling academically median ergo lost in state til year 5. Removed and placed independent with music bursary and family funds. Now thriving.

When you actually have kids, you will (generally) do what you can to give them best chance.

It’s not some dinky left/right idealism politics game.

Agreed. However a better method is to combine with all other parents might be to demand better state/local education and that the weathly tax dodgers are dealt with and contribute more towards it. Plus ending the PFIs, etc, etc, that vampire money away from actual education. Good for your kids, and for others, and probably less stressful and cheaper for you.

Too late for you now, of course, but a point for others to consider.
 


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