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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer VII

I’ve never been a member of any political party in my life, so no direct experience, but I get the impression the Lib Dems are quite mind-numbingly and tediously democratic. I suspect they vote on what type of pen to use.
Odd, if so, that the leadership was able to abandon their two key pledges when in coalition.
 
He’s been calling for a recall of parliament and has been nothing but scathing about the budget. In fact at every point he has been in front of Starmer’s reactions both with Johnson and Truss. Calling for resignation first, calling for recall first.

Here is his Twitter account. Judge for yourself. Lots I agree with, lots I don’t.

I’m not a Davey fan, I thought Layla Moran was an exponentially better leadership candidate, but you have to admit he’s well ahead of Starmer on most things. Plus there is no way in hell a four hour documentary exposing systemic bullying and racism could be made about the LDs!

Not on the media that everyone sees or reads though. Not even the Graun. Folk in Gloucestershire, Tower Hamlets, Thurrock etc may not agree with your assessment. I'm glad the A-J docs is out, pity it won't signal the end of the racists in Labour, they're in charge.
 
The extent of the Labour Party defeat in 2019 was down to the campaign against the Labour Party by those now in charge of the Labour Party. It is the right wing of the Labour Party that is responsible for the size of the Tory majority.


Voting for the a Labour Party that campaigned against the Labour Party values in the hope that it will bring about Labour Party Values is absurd

For whatever reason voters decided to abandon project Jeremy, when they went into the polling booth they did this:

UK vote share change since 2017
  • LABLabour -7.8
  • LDLiberal Democrat +4.2
  • CONConservative +1.2
  • GRNGreen +1.1
  • SNPScottish National Party +0.8
Like I said there was no great incidence of Labour voters going blue rather they sought out the minor parties and that gave us Johnson.
 
Are you saying that PR wouldn't change the overall makeup of political philosophies, just that they would regroup and no longer need to be part of current party 'coalitions'?
"Political philosophies" is dignifying the situation. Call them interest groups, patronage networks, ideologies at a stretch. But yes, they're dug in pretty deep and I'd expect them to simply realign to take into account new parties without fundamentally changing. Left would remain on the outside even if they did good numbers, which isn't guaranteed: our democracy is largely managed before it comes to an actual vote. I guess at least things would be a bit more transparent.
 
It is disingenuous to say criticisms of Starmer have been ‘invented’. Criticisms are quite genuine. If you believe that the party that campaigned against the
Labour Party for two general elections will offer what you voted for in those elections, that’s up to you. If you believe that a party that has shown itself to be institutionally racist and fundamentally democratic will offer an alternative to the racist and undemocratic Tories, that is up to you. If you believe that Labour can spend more on police, NHS, Schools, the environment, Care, infrastructure, and cut spending at the same time, again, that’s up to you, but the observation that Starmer’s Labour is pro Tory, racist, undemocratic, and economically illiterate is not invention, it is evidential, and as for being fundamentally undemocratic, it is felt by personal experience of being made unwelcome and disenfranchised in my own party for the sin of freezing my nuts off campaigning for a Labour victory in the winter of 2019
TF it’s upto me, just as helping us to another tory govt is upto you.
 
"Political philosophies" is dignifying the situation. Call them interest groups, patronage networks, ideologies at a stretch. But yes, they're dug in pretty deep and I'd expect them to simply realign to take into account new parties without fundamentally changing. Left would remain on the outside even if they did good numbers, which isn't guaranteed: our democracy is largely managed before it comes to an actual vote. I guess at least things would be a bit more transparent.
UKIP played a weak hand spectacularly well. Are there not lessons there for the Left (and yes, I acknowledge the role of a complicit media on the UKIP side)?
 
TF it’s upto me, just as helping us to another tory govt is upto you.
My vote will not be helping another Tory government. I will be voting against a Tory government. I will also be voting against a Tory ideology.
 
My vote will not be helping another Tory government. I will be voting against a Tory government. I will also be voting against a Tory ideology.
The tories always win around here, they’ve never failed to win. Nearly 36,000 votes for them last time which put them waaay clear of any other party.

Just over 2,500 wasted their vote on the Greens. There is absolutely no point voting for them, so given Labour is better than tory and the LibDems can’t be trusted nowadays my vote has to go to Labour despite how racist you believe the party to be.
 
This sign on the moor near here always makes me smile.

red-flag.jpg
 
UKIP played a weak hand spectacularly well. Are there not lessons there for the Left (and yes, I acknowledge the role of a complicit media on the UKIP side)?
No doubt, but it has to be acknowledged how strong the hand was and how different the situation of the left is. UKIP had seemingly limitless funds, the backing of the press, and the respect of the BBC. It wasn’t so much a small party as a front for an establishment faction. That whole thing was court politics, really, with some very lively audience participation. There’s no left equivalent.
 
The tories always win around here, they’ve never failed to win. Nearly 36,000 votes for them last time which put them waaay clear of any other party.

Just over 2,500 wasted their vote on the Greens. There is absolutely no point voting for them, so given Labour is better than tory and the LibDems can’t be trusted nowadays my vote has to go to Labour despite how racist you believe the party to be.
The Tories will win round here not matter what. The tactical vote would be to vote Lib Dem’s, but the Clegg Coalition demonstrated the folly of that decision. Since Clegg I have voted with my conscience.

I campaigned for Labour in the last election, it was challenging for a number of reasons not just the weather. After the GE defeat our CLP was banned from even discussing events around Corbyn and his treatment. I made my feelings know at the highest level and received thinly veiled threats that my membership was likely to be questioned. I know others higher up in the Party who have done the same and have received abuse, some of it racist.

The AJ documentaries merely underline what I already know and have felt first hand, that the Labour Party is undemocratic and deeply unpleasant.

You vote for them if you want. I, in all conscience, cannot.
 
The Tories will win round here not matter what. The tactical vote would be to vote Lib Dem’s, but the Clegg Coalition demonstrated the folly of that decision. Since Clegg I have voted with my conscience.

I campaigned for Labour in the last election, it was challenging for a number of reasons not just the weather. After the GE defeat our CLP was banned from even discussing events around Corbyn and his treatment. I made my feelings know at the highest level and received thinly veiled threats that my membership was likely to be questioned. I know others higher up in the Party who have done the same and have received abuse, some of it racist.

The AJ documentaries merely underline what I already know and have felt first hand, that the Labour Party is undemocratic and deeply unpleasant.

You vote for them if you want. I, in all conscience, cannot.
You've pretty much described all that before and I genuinely sympathise, however, Labour remains the only party that can remove the tories.

As @Spraggons Den aludes to above, throwing away a vote on the likes of the Greens, nationalists and other wasters helps give us a tory govt. Tory fans are laughing all the way to the next trough, the kicking of public services and the less well off.
 
The Tories will win round here not matter what. The tactical vote would be to vote Lib Dem’s, but the Clegg Coalition demonstrated the folly of that decision. Since Clegg I have voted with my conscience.
<snip>
You vote for them if you want. I, in all conscience, cannot.
If the voting intentions remain as per these most recent predictions, what does that do to the Tory majority round your way?
 
Ha! Shee-it. I'd been concerned at the Tories' rating remain steadily at the 30% mark, a number with which you can win elections if the opposition's uninspiring enough. I honestly thought that 30% was nailed on, which was pretty frightening for what it says about the British electorate. But if that's broken, then...
 
Ha! Shee-it. I'd been concerned at the Tories' rating remain steadily at the 30% mark, a number with which you can win elections if the opposition's uninspiring enough. I honestly thought that 30% was nailed on, which was pretty frightening for what it says about the British electorate. But if that's broken, then...
Not true. It's nothing to do with it. The anti-tory vote is split between those who genuinely want to remove the tories and those with a different priority who accept the tories. That's the reality some refuse to face.
 
Not true. It's nothing to do with it. The anti-tory vote is split between those who genuinely want to remove the tories and those with a different priority who accept the tories. That's the reality some refuse to face.
Anyone who wants a genuine alternative to Tory racism and corruption will not vote Labour
 


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