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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer VII

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Seeker_UK, Jun 21, 2022.

  1. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr neither here nor there

    That's certainly the choice facing the electorate come the next GE.
     
  2. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    So far Starmer has promised a Green New Deal, more police, more nurses, a Great British energy company and it is promising to cut government spending.

    Something will have to give, the only question is what?
     
  3. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr neither here nor there

    Personally I'm hoping it's the bungs to mates and backers that will be cut.
     
    paulfromcamden likes this.
  4. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    Sure, but it's a pretty big if. A lot of the "green crap" is going to be difficult to implement *meaningfully*: it will use up political capital and damage careers. So it's good to have it confirmed that they're not committed to it, that they see it as a silly hoop they have to jump through to please an electorate they despise, and that they are likely tor restrict themselves to fudges and gestures if they can. Just so we all know where we stand: these people will have to be forced to do anything worthwhile.
     
  5. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

  6. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    They are politicians.

    Are you going to tell us that the popes Catholic next? ;)
     
  7. Spraggons Den

    Spraggons Den pfm Member

    By reversing the recent change in the top rate of tax.
     
  8. laughingboy

    laughingboy pfm Member

    There's a chance that @Seanm is right that Labour are irredeemable. But that quote isn't in the article, and I think it's likely to be Esther Webber's choice of phrase (using David Cameron's words) rather than a quote from a senior Labour figure.
     
  9. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    You will be disappointed:

    https://twitter.com/ByRobDavies/status/1575030935115862017

    There's a revolving door between the PLP and the gambling industry.

    Just one example. There are many more.

    Starmer's Labour Party is predicated on attracting donations from the very wealthy and large corporations. Do you think they will do that out of the goodness of their hearts?
     
    ks.234 likes this.
  10. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    Oh, OK, maybe so. Happy to withdraw my accusation that the Labour Party is full of cynical, manipulative shits, in that case. ;)
     
  11. laughingboy

    laughingboy pfm Member

    The commitment to environmental policies stands, but the article does give the impression that if the electoral numbers didn't support it, it would be dropped. It's all about a simultaneous appeal to the Red Wall up north and the middle-class seats down south, never mind the fact that the actual planet is becoming unliveable.
     
    ks.234 and droodzilla like this.
  12. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    As ever, nothing but a hard left govt will do for a few, forever stating as fact what Labour will do and what Labour will not do depending on which one fits their fundamentalist agenda. You would think such knowledgeable folk about Labour would have a suggestion of who could form a left wing party to challenge the tories.

    Whatever it is it won’t be enough.
     
  13. sean99

    sean99 pfm Member

    It's an unfortunate inconvenience that in order to make any positive changes to society one must first get elected.
     
    Spraggons Den and Seeker_UK like this.
  14. laughingboy

    laughingboy pfm Member

    Oh, sure. But not doing something about climate change is as dumb as not having a defence policy, and neither of the two main parties is talking in those terms.
     
    ks.234 likes this.
  15. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    The left, of course, don’t want to get elected.

    Why persist with this straw man argument?
     
  16. sean99

    sean99 pfm Member

    Because my takeaway from this thread is that it's more important to many on the left to
    - maintain ideological purity
    - deride (demonstrate one's moral superiority to) the bourgeoisie / centrist dad etc
    - demonstrate how much they understand the plight of the "common man"
    - propose that nothing will change until the economic system (ism) is completely changed (but no realistic mechanism for radical change is proposed)

    than it is to get on with the messy but necessary business of compromise, coalition building, and finding common goals that will enable a center left party to be elected and make some positive changes in society.
     
    MikeMA, Spraggons Den, PsB and 2 others like this.
  17. Kirk

    Kirk pfm Member

    The left, of course, can't get elected.
     
    MikeMA and Spraggons Den like this.
  18. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    I can only conclude that that would be your takeaway from literally any encounter with left wing criticism of a centrist party, because it’s not really based on anything that’s actually been said.

    To be clear, my position is that the best we can hope for is that the Labour Party replace the Conservatives and that pressure is brought to bear on them to make good on their progressive promises. For that to happen it needs to be widely understood that they straight up do not want to make good on their progressive promises. You might well disagree with that sentiment but we never really to the point that it can be discussed, because someone always presses the Lesser Evil button, or the Left Wing Puritan button or whatever.
     
    droodzilla likes this.
  19. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    It is not a straw man argument. Stop trying to shut people down.
     
  20. Kirk

    Kirk pfm Member

    + the privileged comrades are too selfish to vote for Starmer/Labour.
     
    sideshowbob likes this.

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