Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
That's certainly the choice facing the electorate come the next GE.But maybe a chance of something is better than the certainty of nothing.
That's certainly the choice facing the electorate come the next GE.But maybe a chance of something is better than the certainty of nothing.
So far Starmer has promised a Green New Deal, more police, more nurses, a Great British energy company and it is promising to cut government spending.At the moment, I hope most would take a slim chance over no chance.
Sure, but it's a pretty big if. A lot of the "green crap" is going to be difficult to implement *meaningfully*: it will use up political capital and damage careers. So it's good to have it confirmed that they're not committed to it, that they see it as a silly hoop they have to jump through to please an electorate they despise, and that they are likely tor restrict themselves to fudges and gestures if they can. Just so we all know where we stand: these people will have to be forced to do anything worthwhile.I don't care how cynical their use of green policies is or not, *if* it results in those policies being enacted when they come into power.
Not likely…..Personally I'm hoping it's the bungs to mates and backers that will be cut.
They are politicians.Unusual level of honesty from a "senior Labour figure" here:
Tittle-tattle really, but it gives you an idea of the bottomless cynicism of these people.
By reversing the recent change in the top rate of tax.So far Starmer has promised a Green New Deal, more police, more nurses, a Great British energy company and it is promising to cut government spending.
Something will have to give, the only question is what?
There's a chance that @Seanm is right that Labour are irredeemable. But that quote isn't in the article, and I think it's likely to be Esther Webber's choice of phrase (using David Cameron's words) rather than a quote from a senior Labour figure.Unusual level of honesty from a "senior Labour figure" here:
Tittle-tattle really, but it gives you an idea of the bottomless cynicism of these people.
You will be disappointed:Personally I'm hoping it's the bungs to mates and backers that will be cut.
Oh, OK, maybe so. Happy to withdraw my accusation that the Labour Party is full of cynical, manipulative shits, in that case.There's a chance that @Seanm is right that Labour are irredeemable. But that quote isn't in the article, and I think it's likely to be Esther Webber's choice of phrase (using David Cameron's words) rather than a quote from a senior Labour figure.
The commitment to environmental policies stands, but the article does give the impression that if the electoral numbers didn't support it, it would be dropped. It's all about a simultaneous appeal to the Red Wall up north and the middle-class seats down south, never mind the fact that the actual planet is becoming unliveable.Oh, OK, maybe so. Happy to withdraw my accusation that the Labour Party is full of cynical, manipulative shits, in that case.
Yet party insiders say they have reason for optimism. With the divisions of Brexit largely behind them and with Boris Johnson now yesterday’s man, working-class voters in so-called Red Wall areas feel “gettable” again, said one person working on the party’s campaign team. A mass drive for decarbonisation is seen as a crucial link between these working-class and middle-class groups, potentially creating new jobs while answering concerns about climate change.
Whatever it is it won’t be enough.So far Starmer has promised a Green New Deal, more police, more nurses, a Great British energy company and it is promising to cut government spending.
Something will have to give, the only question is what?
The commitment to environmental policies stands, but the article does give the impression that if the electoral numbers didn't support it, it would be dropped. It's all about a simultaneous appeal to the Red Wall up north and the middle-class seats down south, never mind the fact that the actual planet is becoming unliveable.
Oh, sure. But not doing something about climate change is as dumb as not having a defence policy, and neither of the two main parties is talking in those terms.It's an unfortunate inconvenience that in order to make any positive changes to society one must first get elected.
The left, of course, don’t want to get elected.It's an unfortunate inconvenience that in order to make any positive changes to society one must first get elected.
The left, of course, don’t want to get elected.
Why persist with this straw man argument?
The left, of course, don’t want to get elected.
Why persist with this straw man argument?
I can only conclude that that would be your takeaway from literally any encounter with left wing criticism of a centrist party, because it’s not really based on anything that’s actually been said.Because my takeaway from this thread is that it's more important to many on the left to
- maintain ideological purity
- deride (demonstrate one's moral superiority to) the bourgeoisie / centrist dad etc
- demonstrate how much they understand the plight of the "common man"
- propose that nothing will change until the economic system (ism) is completely changed (but no realistic mechanism for radical change is proposed)
than it is to get on with the messy but necessary business of compromise, coalition building, and finding common goals that will enable a center left party to be elected and make some positive changes in society.
It is not a straw man argument. Stop trying to shut people down.The left, of course, don’t want to get elected.
Why persist with this straw man argument?
Because my takeaway from this thread is that it's more important to many on the left to
- maintain ideological purity
- deride (demonstrate one's moral superiority to) the bourgeoisie / centrist dad etc
- demonstrate how much they understand the plight of the "common man"
- propose that nothing will change until the economic system (ism) is completely changed (but no realistic mechanism for radical change is proposed)
than it is to get on with the messy but necessary business of compromise, coalition building, and finding common goals that will enable a center left party to be elected and make some positive changes in society.