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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer VI

Discussion in 'off topic' started by PsB, Jan 14, 2022.

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  1. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    Of course you can never predict the outcome of doing nothing. US shouldn’t have become involved in Vietnam but there were no good guys in that conflict & there would have been a different kind of bloodbath. The Ken Burns doc was certainly a real eye opener & the role of the French has been largely forgotten.

    Anyway, I’ll get my coat.
  2. Warren

    Warren Member

    No doubt they are upset by such a prospect, just as the people of Russia are upset by the prospect of Ukraine joining Nato. Any invasion would be a consequence of the US drive to take Ukraine into NATO, after of course they engineered a coup which overthrew a pro-Russian government in Ukraine in 2014, the results of which has caused war, an annexation of Crimea and devastated the Ukrainian economy.

    The point I'm making is that the current situation is not a case of mindless Russian aggression, as western governments and media would like people to believe, and as you suggested. There's far more to it than that.
    mik_rik likes this.
  3. Warren

    Warren Member


    What do you think he would do in this instance?
  4. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    Of course it’s incredibly complicated but I don’t view it through an anti-west prism.

    Ukraine appear to want NATO’s help & I don’t think they welcome Russian incursion. I don’t see NATO as inherently evil but also don’t think there is an easy solution either way.

    What’s the answer, do nothing & see what happens?
  5. sean99

    sean99 pfm Member

    I think you're very trusting. I cannot predict what Putin will do under any circumstances - I guess I am insufficiently Machiavellian. However Putin's behavior seems to be that of a classic bully, who sees what they can get away with and then takes things up a notch. I expect if Nato were to acquiesce to the most recent Russian demands Putin would be emboldened (and would learn that massing troops and tanks as if for war is a good way to extract concessions from Nato and the west).
  6. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans

    PsB and TheDecameron like this.
  7. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    The BBC have Keir Starmer’s strategy sussed: he’s neither Jeremy Corbyn nor Boris Johnson (BBC). Even Laura K has figured it out. Campaign photo here on
    ks.234 likes this.
  8. notaclue

    notaclue pfm Member

  9. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

  10. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    droodzilla likes this.
  11. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr neither here nor there

    4 words:

    Jean Charles de Menezes
    mik_rik and droodzilla like this.
  12. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    It's not Wordle, but I can do it in two:

    Bloody Sunday
    ks.234 and Sue Pertwee-Tyr like this.
  13. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Labour have been a deeply authoritarian party for as long as I can remember. Whilst utterly repulsive this is no more or less than I expect from them. I’m sure they’d be just as happy using riot battens and tear-gas against #BLM or Extinction Rebellion protesters too. Labour’s gonna Labour.
    paulfromcamden likes this.
  14. davidjt

    davidjt pfm Member

    So, as the late lamented P.J. O'Rourke put it in one of his titles, 'DON'T VOTE! It Just Encourages The Bastards'
  15. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    So glad Labour got rid of the extremists and can get back to sensible centrist policies like extra-judicial execution.
    ff1d1l and ks.234 like this.
  16. paulfromcamden

    paulfromcamden Baffled

    Thank you Sean - that made me laugh after a bit of a crappy day :)
    Seanm likes this.
  17. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    ‘“On things like law and order I am quite hardline. I am like, shoot your terrorists and ask questions second,” Rayner told the live audience at the podcast recording. After a loud audience reaction, she said. “Sorry – is that the most controversial thing I’ve ever said?”

    “On law and order, I think if you are being terrorised by the local thug, I want a copper to come and sort them out,” she said. “You should be hardline on things like that. It’s not just, ‘Oh you’ve been burgled here is a crime number’.”

    She added: “I want you to beat down the door of the criminals and sort them out and antagonise them. That’s what I say to my local police … three o’clock in the morning and antagonise them.”’

    They don’t GAF these people. It doesn’t mean anything to them that this kind of talk has consequences. They’ll say and do anything for a few headlines and media backslaps. The mirror image of Johnson’s Tories.
    Enfield boy and ks.234 like this.
  18. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    Yes, this is just dog whistle politics, which while it might get a few of the more rabid dogs frothing at the mouth, when it comes to actually achieving anything will be just another whistle in the wind
    Seanm likes this.
  19. deanf

    deanf pfm Member

    Hang on a minute, calling out ridiculous comments for being ridiculous is one thing but labeling the whole party is something different. The 2019 manifesto - which is the last time the party expressed policy, said, "We will ensure the powers exercised by the security services are proportionate and used in accordance with human rights."

    Not exactly flame throwers and Muslamic rayguns!
  20. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    “Shoot first and ask questions later” is not exactly proportionate or acting in accordance with human rights.
    deanf likes this.
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