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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer VI

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Reading the headlines about increasing child poverty, food banks etc has hardened my stance that the main priority is to get the Tories out. None of the above happened on the Blair/Brown watch so perhaps we should get over ourselves & vote Labour?

Most of us on here will be OK under any government so it’s probably best to give those less fortunate a chance?
 
So what is the ‘Stop The War’ strategy for protecting Ukraine?

PS Whenever I see Corbyn these days I just think ‘George Galloway’.
 
PS Corbyn isn’t all Starmer has to worry about, Unite are threatening to pull finance over Coventry bins (BBC).
 
So what is the ‘Stop The War’ strategy for protecting Ukraine?

PS Whenever I see Corbyn these days I just think ‘George Galloway’.

I don't know but it won't be to side with imperialism on either side. Remember Biden's promise - “no more forever wars?” The truth is there is no protecting Ukraine if there is an invasion - we could send the two tanks we have and a couple of boats from the local park to help keep Johnson in power.
 
Surely the whole point of NATO is we aren’t just sending a couple of bits ‘n’ bobs, but a combined multi-national deterrent/resistance. As an anti-nationalist/anti-tribalist I tend to side with broad multi-national consensus entities such as the EU, NATO etc. They are the best tools we have.

There is an aspect of the far left fringes that I will never understand. Kind of an inward-looking blinkered perspective where they are happy to turn a blind-eye to Putin/Assad barrel-bombing their populations etc etc. I obviously hate the idea of war, but I really don’t think Putin should be allowed to just walk into Ukraine and bring his cultural oppression, dictatorship and authoritarianism. I support a unified global resistance, though I have no time for the pathetic political grandstanding and posturing from the likes of Johnson, Truss, Corbyn etc.
 
There is an aspect of the far left fringes that I will never understand.

I wouldn't call stop the war a fringe or a sect - it's been extremely successful. That is partly why Starmer has made a right wing attack on them, one that only favours Johnson, the other is to further show the establishment that he is one of them and a safe pair of hands.
 
I wouldn't call stop the war a fringe or a sect - it's been extremely successful. That is partly why Starmer has made a right wing attack on them, one that only favours Johnson, the other is to further show the establishment that he is one of them and a safe pair of hands.

I’d be interested to read what they are arguing relating to Ukraine. Is there a formal statement/strategy? As I say I have a lot of respect for Brian Eno (I even have a signed copy of Discreet Music!).
 
PS Corbyn isn’t all Starmer has to worry about, Unite are threatening to pull finance over Coventry bins (BBC).

Awww. Now I'm getting all nostalgic.

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I can see an argument for about 30% of the points made, but too much falls into the ‘George Galloway’ mindset I was trying to describe above. I’m afraid I could no more sit through a video of Jeremy Corbyn than I could Lizz Truss or Nigel Farage. I’d end up swearing at the TV with any of them.

You asked ;)
 
So what is the ‘Stop The War’ strategy for protecting Ukraine?

PS Whenever I see Corbyn these days I just think ‘George Galloway’.
Substantively I don't think it's much different to NATO policy: talk, avoid escalation. Just minus the bullshit chest thumping. And plus, it has to be said, some weird, crude anti-imperialism that fetishises historical Russian anti-fascism in Ukraine.

There is definitely a Stalinist element in STW, it can't be denied. But that's political organisations for you, none of them are pure, and STW have basically always been on the right side when it comes to international conflict, the Labour leadership (and British government) the wrong side. LOL at the idea we have to give NATO a pass on its many murderous escapades because they're not as bad as the other guys, but STW have to be driven from public life because of a few tankies on the steering committee.

The main point here is that the Labour leadership are using this very dangerous and volatile situation to pursue a purely domestic agenda. It's reckless, cynical, and not even popular: the audience for this drek is a few liberal pundits rather than the electorate, who are not at all pro-war. And as Solomon Hughes points out, they're doing it using the far right language of virtue signalling and treachery, not one week after everyone had decided that using right wing smears and conspiracy theories against your political enemies was actually bad now, completely beyond the pale.

The faction currently in charge of Labour are genuinely very pro-war, much more so than any of the Tories, as far as I can tell. They're pretty flexible, ideologically-speaking, on most things, but they really do love war. It's something to bear in mind when tallying up the Are Labour As Bad as the Tories score sheet. On this, probably worse.
 
The faction currently in charge of Labour are genuinely very pro-war, much more so than any of the Tories, as far as I can tell. They're pretty flexible, ideologically-speaking, on most things, but they really do love war. It's something to bear in mind when tallying up the Are Labour As Bad as the Tories score sheet. On this, probably worse.

Interesting. I don’t have the in-depth knowledge of Labour, but I do certainly view them as highly authoritarian and imperialistic. My support of NATO in this scenario is the hope that a substantial multi-national defensive force placed on the border should prevent Putin’s expansionism, i.e. I am hoping it prevents any invasion, bloodshed and eventual retaliation. I see it as probably the most peaceful option currently available. Obviously there may well be other prices to pay, e.g. Putin using gas supply as a weapon.

I also agree with STW in that the Conservative Party is so riddled with dirty Russian money and wealth it can’t be seen as an impartial actor in this scenario. I see that as a reason to purely follow Nato and take as much decision making as possible away from such an obviously tainted and corrupt entity. The last thing I want to see is any unilateral action from a government that would place someone as thick as Liz Truss anywhere near a decision making process.
 
I'm sure Johnson and Truss have performed due diligence about supporting the former actor and comedian Zelensky and are not just blindly doing what they think the US might want and I'm equally sure Starmer has strong idealogical reasons for backing the PM. However I do kinda have some sympathy for Russia not wanting more nukes on it's border, after all the US kicked up an almighty stink over missiles in Cuba.
 
I'm sure Johnson and Truss have performed due diligence about supporting the former actor and comedian Zelensky and are not just blindly doing what they think the US might want and I'm equally sure Starmer has strong idealogical reasons for backing the PM.

I’m sure Johnson and Truss are far more interested in what Trump, Bannon etc want than the current US administration. That and what their Russian oligarch donors might want.
 
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