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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer V

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He always struck me as a lightweight- a kind of Labour David Cameron. I also think he’s beyond his shelf life as far as a serious leadership bid goes. A Miliband would be good.
 
Speaking as a floating centrist, I always thought Andy Burnham seemed like a decent bloke with, I imagine, a broad appeal. Where does he figure in the true believer's firmament these days?
Still popular in the North, AFAICT. Doing a good job as mayor, and seems to stand by his principles.

Which is nice.
 
Speaking as a floating centrist, I always thought Andy Burnham seemed like a decent bloke with, I imagine, a broad appeal. Where does he figure in the true believer's firmament these days?

He strikes me as one of the very few politicians that has ever improved when given responsibility and placed under scrutiny. He seems to be doing a reasonable job as Mayor of Manchester and seems on the right side of many arguments, but as I’ve stated many times on this thread the issue here is the Labour party as an entity, it is way more thzn a leadership issue. It is IMHO conceptually unfit for purpose as it supports far too many things that so obviously need reform.
 
He strikes me as one of the very few politicians that has ever improved when given responsibility and placed under scrutiny. He seems to be doing a reasonable job as Mayor of Manchester and seems on the right side of many arguments, but as I’ve stated many times on this thread the issue here is the Labour party as an entity, it is way more thzn a leadership issue. It is IMHO conceptually unfit for purpose as it supports far too many things that so obviously need reform.
The NEC is in charge of Labour, not the Leader. Whatever Burnham stands for, believes in and works towards, would quickly become irrelevant if he became leader of the Labour Party
 
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Surely D Miliband is the Labour David Cameron?
You got me thinking. There’s a Tory Party bestiary which I can’t imagine replicated in any other political party. I mean, find me an equivalent of any of this lot-

Michael Gove
Andrew Bridgen
Marco Francois
John Redwood
Nadine Dorres
Jacob Rees Mogg

They may exist in Brazil, Hungary, Belarus or an imagined hell but I’ve not seen examples here. It would defy the laws of nature.
 
UKIP sees your hand and ups the stakes with claiming floods caused by gay folk, anti-vaccers, professional racists as advisors etc.
 
And how could I have forgotten, the Honourable Member for Lichfield,

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There can be no known other occurrence in nature, surely?
 
Burnham is a decent mayor but he will get found out on the national stage. He’s also another career politician which I have very mixed feelings about.
 
I don’t need to convince you of anything but I will say this in response to your question and labelling.

It is called frustration and anger at the EU.

Frustration the EU refuses to negotiate despite I assume having the ability to see there is a problem. Frustration they refuse to compromise on anything.

Anger the EU has no respect for the outcome of a democratic referendum held in this country, has expended much energy since 2016 attempting to keep the UK under its control and does not accept N.Ireland is part of the UK.

As for me being nasty, vindictive and spiteful because I’m supposedly happy for millions of people in EU countries to suffer. Your inference is wildly incorrect yet you’ve put some pretty nasty labels on me there. I do not for one moment believe millions will suffer in Europe should the EU collapse, that is most certainly not in my mind when I made that comment, interesting it is in yours though. There is no doubt whatsoever, should the EU collapse all of those countries will negotiate and agree workable trade deals and cooperation.

There was also something you said about me joining with brexiters in that wish for collapse of the EU. Perhaps you can show the evidence that over 17m people in the UK want the EU to collapse? That’s my own inference from your post. My understanding is ‘brexiters’ voted for the UK to leave the EU, I haven’t seen much clamour at all for wishing collapse of the EU. The EU certainly needs major reform to become properly democratic.

My lack of adoration of the EU may not make any sense to you and that’s fine. I have a different opinion than you do, yet I do not make a personal judgement of you based on my inference of what you write here nor on that difference of opinion.

What is your position on millions possibly suffering in the UK due to the EU refusal to compromise on anything? What is your position on the ‘big’ EU working to get the ‘small’ UK to agree to a remain deal disguised as a leave deal, despite the democratic referendum result here?

Note: Despite other inferences, I already agree the tories are bad, that they agreed a deal and that we voted to leave.

Thank you for the extra information Brian.

A couple of things. The collapse of the EU would also mean the collapse of the Eurozone. This would very likely cause a recession, with southern European countries such as Spain, Italy and Greece being worst affected. It would not bode well at all for the less well-off. This is before we even get to the wider global implications.You obviously disagree, but to me that above point seems more likely than not.

Second point, about "joining with brexiters" in wishing for the collapse of the EU (your direct quote). What I actually said was "You are saying there that you agree with the Brexiters who want the EU to collapse". I've highlighted "the" because it's an important distinction, i.e. the Brexiters that wish for the EU collapse, not all Brexiters, as you inferred. A small but very important point, which you appear to have missed.

As for the EU, they are dealing with decisions made by the Tory government. They made their position very clear before Article 50 was triggered, but the Conservatives went ahead and went for the hardest possible Brexit anyway. I'm not sure I'd be wanting to compromise much with a slippery liar like Johnson. This is pretty much on him, not the EU. The EU are certainly not perfect and I agree that reforms could be made, but I'd rather be in with them than out with Johnson and his robbin' men!

Is your 'remain deal disguised as a leave deal' a deal where we stay in the Single Market & Customs Union? I would have thought that would be a pragmatic choice that does honour the close result of the referendum.

Sorry Brian, but that post of yours about the EU came across as extremely negative, to put it lightly.
 
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The NEC is in charge of Labour, not the Leader. Whatever Burnham stands for, believes in and works towards, would quickly become irrelevant if he became leader of the Labour Party
As we all now know, the NEC is appointed by the Elders of Zion.
 
This is good on Labour’s ascendant right wing factions:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/03/labours-factions-keir-starmer-left-party-right

Apart from anything else it’s just good to see their existence acknowledged by an outfit like the Guardian, where standard practice has long been to pretend that there are only left wing factions, destabilising an otherwise sensible and pragmatic, if sometimes incompetent, organisation. I wonder is this an admission that the party’s recent actions* simply don’t make sense without acknowledging these groups and their very inward-looking priorities.

*Edit: I mean, really:

https://twitter.com/adambienkov/status/1423391079567708162?s=21
 
As ever, satire sums up the problems in Labour quicker and better than a lengthy article


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I would like to use awareness of the national debt to argue for a rise in the tax take in the not too distant future - be it from VAT or income tax or some other means.
Or how about putting a temporary tax on home sales (I realise home buyers are already taxed), in order to reduce the overheating that is currently occurring, and as a means of reducing the national debt. It would stop the crazy gazumping and make homes more affordable for our young people, what’s not to like.
 
Or how about putting a temporary tax on home sales (I realise home buyers are already taxed), in order to reduce the overheating that is currently occurring, and as a means of reducing the national debt. It would stop the crazy gazumping and make homes more affordable for our young people, what’s not to like.
Unless you mean only taxing house purchase over a certain limit, then wouldn’t an overall tax mean that only the already rich could afford to move which would encourage gazumping and make houses less affordable for first time buyers?
 
Fair point how about any house sale above the national average which is currently about 250k and a different figure for London village.
 
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