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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer IV

Discussion in 'off topic' started by droodzilla, Apr 24, 2021.

  1. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK I had amnesia once or twice...

    The most reliable form, but not foolproof, is photo ID or other biometric but that's only from the perspective of proving identity. I agree with you, most ways will disenfranchise some. For example, I wouldn't want to carry some form of ID on a phone as I don't trust digital nor routinely carry a mobile.
     
  2. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    Really? I've never known my full NI number. I know there's a 37 in there, and that it ends with a B. Other than that, I'm flummoxed.

    But, as we are always sent polling cards at election time, why not insist that those are brought to the polling station as proof of name and address, then destroyed after voting to prevent re-use? That would a) obviate the need for possibly expensive forms of photo ID and b) not disenfranchise anyone.
     
  3. Cav

    Cav pfm Member

    It is Tories like you I have no time for. I dare say the people of Hartlepool will not be required to have photo ID until they stop voting for the Party of Sleaze, Corruption, Cronyism and Lies.
     
  4. Cav

    Cav pfm Member

    How would they know? What do they think the real figure is in your leafy village?
     
  5. Cav

    Cav pfm Member

    That's a very European attitude Brian.
     
  6. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    I actually manage to fit it in to a brain otherwise full of record matrix numbers etc!
     
  7. Cav

    Cav pfm Member

    And those who would dearly like to but don't drive and cannot afford a passport would be banned from voting in your fascist heaven?
     
  8. miktec

    miktec unissued


    OK - I am really thick and probably also a snowflake so can you explain slowly and clearly to me how on earth an ID card would make voting in an election in any way more secure than it already is.

    Every time I have voted my details have been checked against a list and crossed off once I am given the ballot papers.

    So if I was of a mind to rig an election in any meaningful way how the fug would I do it?
    ... find out beforehand who is unlikely to turn up and pretend to be them or get there before the real person arrives and hope no-one kicks up a fuss later - and how many times in a day would I have to do this to make even the slightest difference ?????
     
    ff1d1l and SteveS1 like this.
  9. sean99

    sean99 pfm Member

    [sarcasm]Then they should have worked harder when they were younger in school and become doctors.

    No one will be disenfranchised by the glorious Tory proposals, or at least no one worth worrying about.[/sarcasm]
     
    TheDecameron likes this.
  10. andvinylly

    andvinylly hit that long lunar note

    No doubt we will have to also pay for these useless ID cards, another tax by stealth
     
  11. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    Well there you go then.
     
  12. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    No. My comment is about ID cards in general. The subject has come up here many times, always with the overly sensitive harping on about attacking democracy and eroding their liberties. It’s nonsense.

    As an aside, I wonder if the people who believe carrying ID attacks democracy are the same people as those keen on ignoring the democratic referendum in 2016.

    Does any of this latest sub-topic have anything to do with Starmer? I guess anyone in favour of having ID, or not loudly against it, is a rabid tory according to the pfm massive.
     
    doctorf likes this.
  13. doctorf

    doctorf left footed right winger

    I think you need help.
     
  14. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    Guessing wildly, lots of £££££s for companies that support the Tories in cash or kind to develop and manufacture voter ID cards. So we the taxpayers pay for an expensive, unnecessary scheme that will doubtless run way over budget, then probably have to pay again to buy the wretched ID cards.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
    ks.234, SteveS1 and gavreid like this.
  15. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    To call any concern about democracy or liberty ‘overtly sensitive harping’, or any person expressing such concerns a ‘snowflake’ is reducing the argument to insult and is not an argument in support of voter ID on its merits

    But from the evidence posted so far, the argument for voter ID has no merit. The arguments in favour of ID cards are entirely spurious. From 2010-16, spanning two general elections and the EU referendum, there were 146 allegations with seven people convicted, five in a single case. Voter fraud quite simply is not an issue with any evidence at all

    The arguments that ID cards will have a negative effect on voting participation are based in evidence and research, research such as that from the cabinet office itself which shows that 2.1 million people could miss their right to vote

    When trial for voter ID cards were carried out a few years ago, more than 800 people were unable to vote.

    On the financial side there are questions about how much ID cards will cost and who will pay for them but this government has pledged that would-be voters who do not possess the necessary photo ID can apply to their council for a free “voter card”.

    This could result in councils having to issue 3.5 million cards which will put considerable extra pressure on councils already struggling under Tory cuts and in addition will disproportionately effect those councils in poorer areas.

    On the wider democratic issue, there is likely to be a high correlation between poverty and difficulty in meeting the ID requirement. Also, some minority communities will be disproportionately affected. The most recent data shows that people from black and south Asian backgrounds are less likely than their white peers to hold a driving licence. Older and disabled voters also number among those for whom this proposal will act as a barrier to participation. The impediment will be felt widely across society, but the balance of discrimination would favour the Tories in an election.

    To put petty insult, and petty insult alone, against the mountain of evidence that voter ID is undemocratic is just not good enough
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
    Nick_G, Dave***t, palindrome and 8 others like this.
  16. ff1d1l

    ff1d1l pfm Member

    We all need a tory cull.
     
  17. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    Snowflake!
     
  18. miktec

    miktec unissued

    ... and in this case they are bang on the money.
     
  19. miktec

    miktec unissued

    No, it's not even remotely difficult, not difficult at all in fact - about 4% would be disenfranchised according to the Gov's own published figures based on their pilots.

    This equates to just short of 2 million registered voters for both national and local elections (again, according to Gov numbers as of 2019)

    An awful lot more damaging to democracy than any proven cases of imposter voting - by an extremely large margin in fact.

    See how easy it was - the numbers are all out there and freely available for all to check.
     
  20. Chops54

    Chops54 pfm Member


    I wouldn’t worry too much Tony. Both our passports expired three years ago. Jean is still using her paper driving license so she has no photo id at all. Doesn’t bother us as neither of us has voted since before Brexit as we just can’t see the point anymore. They’re all lying conniving ba5tards.
     

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