Labour Leader: Keir Starmer III

[SteveS1]

When the evidence changes, I change my opinion. Starmer's performance recently culminating this morning with a ridiculous interview on Marr will have lost him a lot of support in an instant. He will please nobody and the Labour UKIP voters he seeks to appease are heavily invested in their choice and won't allow facts, especially those that don't touch them directly, get in the way of that. Support of Johnson has more than a ring of Trump about it.

No doubt when faced with a choice of Johnson or an alternative, I will find myself having to vote for him, but with no enthusiasm. Meet the new boss, etc. With nobody else on the horizon this is looking like a long four years.

 

[Seanm]

I do hope that the soft left will finally learn the lessons of the Miliband years.

 

[h.g.]

There was not a peep from pudgy eyes on Twitter on the 31st about Brexit.

What was he going to say? He opted to make labour support a hard brexit as a tactic to build support in order to win the next election. There is zero chance he thinks a hard brexit is good idea but he is playing a PR game in order to get labour elected. I personally think it was a serious miscalculation that will harm labour support as more and more people that initially supported brexit begin to understand what it actually means to their day-to-day lives. Nonetheless the possibility exists that he has got his tactics rights and I am wrong. We will see.

But he's right there for the important news... A pudgy-eyed, Brexit-enabling royalist!

Again this is PR tactics. He needs to be seen by people that don't currently support labour as safe and reliable. Whatever their personal views any UK politician that engages in public anti-royalist rants is almost certainly going to harm their ability to get things done.

When the evidence changes, I change my opinion. Starmer's performance recently culminating this morning with a ridiculous interview on Marr will have left him losing a lot of support. He will please nobody

He was trying to come across as safe and reliable. He inevitably came unstuck a bit over supporting a hard brexit but did as well as could be expected given the facts were not too supportive. He provided little else that I saw that could be used against him. I believe he is seeking more to be an acceptable neutral alternative for those that stop supporting Johnson and the current conservatives due to lies, incompetence and dishonesty rather than winning them over with attractive labour policies. It plays badly to current labour supporters but how many are likely to go elsewhere? This is modern politics.

and the Labour UKIP voters he seeks to appease are heavily invested in their choice and won't allow the facts to get in the way.

I very much doubt this is true for the majority. Most people that supported brexit did so weakly based on vague notions that things would be better after brexit. Europe wasn't even on their radar until it was thrust at them. Yes there were a few passionate supporters but they were not the majority. As the weak supporters of brexit experience what brexit actually means many will drop their support. The strong supporters likely won't but I personally know nobody in this category but do know quite a few that voted for brexit based on vague abstract notions of improvement and how things were in the past. How many strong supporters of brexit do you know compared to those that weakly supported it or supported remain?

No doubt when faced with a choice of Johnson or an alternative, I will find myself having to vote for him but with no enthusiasm. Meet the new boss.

This I agree with. We don't know if Starmer will or will not go into effective battle against the vested interest causing our economic and social decline. There was more hope when we had little information beyond his previous positions and his 10 pledges but the more he takes positions that weaken that battle which cannot be wholly assigned to tactics to get elected the more he looks like a convictionless careerist leader in the Blair/Cameron/Clegg mold. His labour government would without question be preferable to our current extraordinary one but come the election the conservative party are fairly likely to have replaced it and then what?

 

[ciderglider]

I do hope that the soft left will finally learn the lessons of the Miliband years.

I just hope that both soft and hard left acknowledge they have both lost elections to the Tories.

 

[Seanm]

I just hope that both soft and hard left acknowledge they have both lost elections to the Tories.

Absolutely. I actually think we're in a good position now for all of us to learn the lesson that the UK's electoral politics can't be unlocked by identifying the optimum spot on the left-right policy continuum, or finding just the right messaging. The problem goes much deeper.

 

[ks.234]

Absolutely. I actually think we're in a good position now for all of us to learn the lesson that the UK's electoral politics can't be unlocked by identifying the optimum spot on the left-right policy continuum, or finding just the right messaging. The problem goes much deeper.

Absolutely. And I think the Left has more to learn. Both sides identify the sweet spot on the policy continuum and tailor policies to it. But the Right can take a Right wing idea like Brexit and rely on the blind support of their supporters while the Left tears itself to pieces over criticism of it’s own policy decisions

The problem is that the Left appeals to a far more intelligent demographic capable of critical thinking, while Trump and Brexit show that the Right appeals to a much more dumb arse demographic.

 

[droodzilla]

https://keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/

Full voting rights for EU nationals. Defend free movement as we leave the EU. An immigration system based on compassion and dignity. End indefinite detention and call for the closure of centres such as Yarl’s Wood.

https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1348210279792914433

On whether he would bring back freedom of movement: "I don’t think there’s an argument for reopening those aspects of the treaty".

A man you can trust.

 

[ciderglider]

The problem is that the Left appeals to a far more intelligent demographic capable of critical thinking, while Trump and Brexit show that the Right appeals to a much more dumb arse demographic.

One thing that has struck me in commentary on the demise of the Red Wall is that people walked away from Labour because they thought Labour looked down on them, seeing them as dumb and unsophisticated, and best ignored.

 

[ks.234]

One thing that has struck me in commentary on the demise of the Red Wall is that people walked away from Labour because they thought Labour looked down on them, seeing them as dumb and unsophisticated, and best ignored.

I thought it was all Corbyn’s fault?

 

[ks.234]

https://keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/


https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1348210279792914433


A man you can trust.

10 good pledges,
Sitting on a wall.

10 good pledges,
Sitting on a wall.

And if one good pledge,
Should accidentally fall....

 

[Tony L]

One thing that has struck me in commentary on the demise of the Red Wall is that people walked away from Labour because they thought Labour looked down on them, seeing them as dumb and unsophisticated, and best ignored.

...and as they left for the economic collapse, overt racism, lies and corruption of Farage and the Tory Party that viewpoint is one of very few within Labour that actually stands up to any scrutiny!

 

[h.g.]

One thing that has struck me in commentary on the demise of the Red Wall is that people walked away from Labour because they thought Labour looked down on them, seeing them as dumb and unsophisticated, and best ignored.

Have you got that the right way round? Surely it was the ex-red wall labour voters that look down on Corbyn as dumb and unsophisticated and best ignored?

In truth the bond that used to exist between working people and the labour party was broken long ago and well before Corbyn. The weakening of unions, working men's clubs, political discussion in the pub and family,... The bond between ordinary people and politicians is pretty weak these days and is one of the main reasons the voting intentions of a large proportion of the population can swing so much so quickly these days.

 

[ks.234]

10 good pledges,
Sitting on a wall.

10 good pledges,
Sitting on a wall.

And if one good pledge,
Should accidentally fall....

...there’ll be no good pledges,
Worth anything at all.

 

[stephen bennett]

In an interview with the BBC’s Andrew Marr, Starmer was reminded that when standing for the Labour leadership after the party’s election defeat he said, as one of 10 pledges, he would “defend free movement as we leave the EU”.

Same shit, different colour.

I wonder where anyone gets the ‘politicians are all the same, can’t trust them’ idea comes from?

Stephen

 

[gavreid]

Starmer to veto Chakrabarti's amendment to the spy cops bill...

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...r-split-over-police-immunity-in-spy-cops-bill

 

[ks.234]

In an interview with the BBC’s Andrew Marr, Starmer was reminded that when standing for the Labour leadership after the party’s election defeat he said, as one of 10 pledges, he would “defend free movement as we leave the EU”.

Same shit, different colour.

I wonder where anyone gets the ‘politicians are all the same, can’t trust them’ idea comes from?

Stephen

At least Nick Clegg only broke one pledge

 

[Tony L]

Starmer to veto Chakrabarti's amendment to the spy cops bill...

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...r-split-over-police-immunity-in-spy-cops-bill

Good grief, Labour really are utter shit. They are far worse than useless, this is consistently being on the wrong side of every important argument.

 

[gavreid]

Good grief, Labour really are utter shit. They are far worse than useless, this is consistently being on the wrong side of every important argument.

He's not a socialist - he hasn't a clue what it means.

 

[ks.234]

He's not a socialist - he hasn't a clue what it means.

He said he was a socialist, but seems to have forgotten about it.

Maybe he just has memory issues?

 

[Seanm]

Starmer to veto Chakrabarti's amendment to the spy cops bill...

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...r-split-over-police-immunity-in-spy-cops-bill

Clearer and clearer that the red wall crap is a smokescreen. Starmer is speaking solely to the establishment, in this case the spooks, and his only message is he will not challenge them in any way.