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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer II

Discussion in 'off topic' started by droodzilla, Aug 2, 2020.

  1. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    farfromthesun and Weekender like this.
  2. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    He didn't though did he? Ed Milliband capitulated to the right of the PLP and ran on a muddled manifesto that pleased nobody.

    Through sheer bloody-mindedness (he's a stubborn old goat) Corbyn stuck to his guns and Labour ran on a revelatory manifesto in 2017. It instantly put renationalisation and a host of other sound social-democratic policies back on the political agenda.

    I like Milliband too. He's an intelligent, principled guy but sadly for him (and for us) he lacked the courage of his convictions.
     
    Enfield boy and Sue Pertwee-Tyr like this.
  3. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    Since today's debate in the HoC has drifted onto this thread, how fantastically shit is this introduction to R4 News tonight:

    https://twitter.com/marksugruek/status/1305620031947014152

    I know it purports to describe events from the government's perspective but does it have to do so at such great and unctuous length?
     
  4. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Milliband never capitulated to ethnic nationalism, xenophobia and outright racism, he stood up and was counted. I’ll never forgive Corbyn for just sitting back and waiving the Farages, Yaxley Lennons, Hoeys, Manns, Rees Moggs, Johnsons etc through. Worst Labour leader of my lifetime despite a perfectly reasonable 2017 manifesto.

    PS The point I’m trying to make is today, finally, we actually saw some opposition from Labour. Corbyn was too feckless and conflicted, Starmer seems too cautious and measured, yet Miliband actually got up and finally did the job his party should have been doing for a decade now. That is what I want to see. No fence, no focus groups, no “triangulation”, just understand what is right and what is wrong and bloody say it.
     
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr, ff1d1l and Nick_G like this.
  5. rbrown

    rbrown I think therefore I think I am

    I hope any government lawyers who voted this through get struck off by the Law Society.
     
  6. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    One former barrister/Tory MP, Reman Chisthti, looks to have resigned (Twitter). Respect to him.
     
  7. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    Balls. You seem to have forgotten the waving through of the 2015 Immigration Bill and the 2012 Welfare Reform Bill (guess who took a stand on those?) to say nothing of the racist mugs. Poor Ed was very easily manipulated by the total sh-theads that surrounded him and now surround Starmer.
     
    Enfield boy and ks.234 like this.
  8. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    I agree Milliband was good today; better than Corbyn and Starmer. He's a good performer in the HoC. Which is nice, I suppose.

    However, you're completely wrong about him never capitulating to ethnic nationalism and xenophobia (see Sean's post).
     
  9. rbrown

    rbrown I think therefore I think I am

    Good man.
     
  10. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    You hear a lot of this. I understand the need to see Corbyn as gammon but I don’t get why his predecessors, who actually did pull some hideously racist stuff, have to be whitewashed.

    Any minute now I’m gonna have to pull out that Jon Stone thread listing all the heinous things New Labour did.
     
  11. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    I’m whitewashing nothing. Remember I live pretty near to what was that racist/Islamophobe gammon Phil Woolas‘s seat! I saw Labour’s racism up fairly close as well as its trough-feeding and corruption. I’m not a Labour voter as to be frank they are just way, way too shit for me to vote for in good conscience, but what you saw from Ed Miliband today is exactly what is needed to rebuild and move forward. It is referred to as ‘opposition’, and is something that has been entirely missing in action for far too long. That Ed Miliband, a leader widely viewed as ineffectual and compromised, can crucify Johnson in a way neither Corbyn nor Starmer ever got even remotely close in ages of trying has to highlight the core failures within the party. As such I’d be inclined to reflect and learn from it rather than simply dig the hole deeper defending a loser like Corbyn!
     
    Nick_G likes this.
  12. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    I’m learning a fair bit from the responses to it!
     
  13. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    I complimented Milliband's performance today and expressed regret that he didn't show the same spirit when he was leader.

    You replied with a bad-tempered, sweary rant that contained factual errors.

    In particular you claimed that "Milliband never capitulated to ethnic nationalism, xenophobia and outright racism". This is demonstrably false: his manifesto was full of the "legitimate concern" favoured by both the Labour right, and Farage (in the days when he tried to hide his fascism). Here's the manifesto:

    https://action.labour.org.uk/page/-/A4 BIG _PRINT_ENG_LABOUR MANIFESTO_TEXT LAYOUT.pdf

    Try searching it for the word "immigration" and then tell me again that "Milliband never capitulated to ethnic nationalism, xenophobia and outright racism". Frankly, only a mug would say that:

    [​IMG]

    He even carved it in tablets of stone:

    [​IMG]

    Wonder what happened to the Edstone? Must be worth a fortune now.
     
    Enfield boy likes this.
  14. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    I’d forgotten that, and yes you are right. How I forgot it I’ve no idea as thinking back it was a reason I didn’t vote for them. Labour’s racism has run way too deep and way too long for me. It’s just not my party. Sorry.

    PS I bet you did vote for them, even with that pledge, so you have little moral high-ground here! Anyway, I accept I called that wrong and apologise if my post appeared ‘ranty’. I’ve still zero time for Corbyn, obviously!
     
    Weekender and ks.234 like this.
  15. NeilR

    NeilR pfm Member

    yes, there is some learning in that for many of us. Myself included. I could never have imagined back then how bad things would get under the Tories. (I abstained from voting in 2015, btw).
     
  16. thebigfredc

    thebigfredc pfm Member

    Yes we caught Ed Miliband on Today yesterday morning and he came across well, certainly better than when he was leader.
     
  17. thebigfredc

    thebigfredc pfm Member

    Great pictures but are we conflating asylum seekers and immigration controls. Surely just about every country in the world has some kind of controls in place for the latter hence the well established need for a passport to cross international borders so Ed could stand in front of a stone with this message on in good conscience.
     
  18. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    I quite liked Milliband, history has certainly put him in a better light compared to this utter shit show.
     
  19. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    I wouldn’t call Labour’s 2017 manifesto ‘revelatory’; my recollection was that it piled up a load of pledges that they knew they’d never had to stand by. As it happens the result was closer than expected.

    I do believe this has a negative effect on 2019 as they then had to pile on a fair bit of icing like free broadband for all.

    I completely forgot about the Ed Stone, this has to be the most disastrous election stunt in modern times; it made the Labour Party into a laughing stock.

    I think all countries should have effective immigration controls & accommodate asylum seekers. Unfortunately, any & all measures get conflated & corrupted into racism. There also does seem to be a strong correlation between strict immigration controls & rampant racism.
     
    Weekender likes this.
  20. jackbarron

    jackbarron Chelsea, London

    The racist former Labour supporters who voted for Brexit, and helped Johnson into power, are no doubt waving their St George's Cross flags and shouting "F^^^ the EU" in support of him.

    Jack
     
    Weekender likes this.

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