russel
./_dazed_and_confused
I wouldn’t be surprised if he was as well, I don’t think he likes all this “work”, “thinking” and “facts”.
Labour Leader: Keir Starmer II
- Thread starter droodzilla
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I wouldn’t be surprised if he was as well, I don’t think he likes all this “work”, “thinking” and “facts”.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
I hope you’re right, but the quotes I hear on the radio from northern towns are generally still supportive of Boris while Sunak is riding high in the polls. This chimes with what I hear from my ‘man in the pub’ down here. Johnson remains popular despite, or maybe because of, his bumbling and lies.
I fear that the Labour tactic of sitting back and doing nothing while we wait for the Tories to trip up or the voters to wake up is going to be doomed to failure
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I don’t believe the Tories have shifted to the left. I believe, rather, that they will make a great show of pretending to do so, but there will be no substantive effect. The job of Labour will be to expose the hollowness of these promises.
droodzilla
pfm Member
Also, the Tories will ditch Johnson as soon as he becomes unpopular. I'm not sure Starmer's "smooth dude in a suit" approach will have the same traction against Sunak (I mean, have you seen his suits?).
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Assuming Sunak does succeed Johnson, how many Tory voters would pause before voting for a party run by a swarthy person of the Asian persuasion? Given the xenophobia and outright racism in some Tory/Brexit demographics, not to mention ‘red wall’ constituencies, might this not be a non-trivial risk factor for them?
Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
Labour will then have to ditch Starmer and find a scruffy (preferably female) git. Either that, or do a transfer deal with the Tories and get Sunak on board.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
I agree, but Labour has a history of mimicking the Tories when they should be exposing and challenging them. Look at the 3 line whip to waive, or do I mean wave, through the Welfare Reform Bill for instance
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Post Brexit/Covid, they should have the easiest job in history. Basically, not being the shower in charge. If they flunk it, they don’t deserve to run the country and I’m not sure they’d be the right people for the job in that case.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
But that doesn’t tell us whether he is popular with Tories, it just tells us he’s relatively popular with the British population. He has quite a fan base among Labour voters, AIUI, which could mask some hand-sitting in the Tory shires and red/blue wall constituencies.
Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
It will, as always, mostly depend on how the economy is doing come General Election time.
But, again as always, the majority pfm viewpoint is skewed towards Tory = Bad, Labour = Good, with a subset of Tory = Bad, Right-wing Labour = Worse, which is at odds with the view of the wider population. In addition, opinions on pfm are usually combined with a healthy dose of wishful thinking, of the 'there's no way Cameron can survive this' type. This despite the fact that in living memory there's never been a UK Government with a positive majority that has been unseated, however badly things have gone. The Tories will ruthlessly boot out a leader who is seen as either past their sell-by date, or unlikely to win the next election. The brutal truth is that whoever leads Labour will have to rely on the economy doing badly, whilst not, of course, expressing their hope of this happening.
But, again as always, the majority pfm viewpoint is skewed towards Tory = Bad, Labour = Good, with a subset of Tory = Bad, Right-wing Labour = Worse, which is at odds with the view of the wider population. In addition, opinions on pfm are usually combined with a healthy dose of wishful thinking, of the 'there's no way Cameron can survive this' type. This despite the fact that in living memory there's never been a UK Government with a positive majority that has been unseated, however badly things have gone. The Tories will ruthlessly boot out a leader who is seen as either past their sell-by date, or unlikely to win the next election. The brutal truth is that whoever leads Labour will have to rely on the economy doing badly, whilst not, of course, expressing their hope of this happening.
Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
I'm just going on the many derogatory (no pun intended) views expressed on pfm about Tony Blair and the administrations he led.
gavreid
Pretty Words...
He's a confessed war criminal but that's still marginally better than the Tories
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I’ve never understood this. I realise a rightward-Leaning Labour Party (eg NuLab) is far from ideal as a supporter of core Labour ideals, but it is to be preferred over any flavour of Tory government since the Heath days, IMHO. First get into power, then argue over policy nuances.
Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
I guess the alternative view is that the policy nuances never do get discussed once in power, because being in power is seen as the end rather than the means.
The major disaster for Labour was losing Roy Jenkins, the best Home Secretary and one of the best Chancellors of the Exchequer in living memory. What makes it worse is that he went because the then leadership were 'early adopters' of Brexit!
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
As long as it's one of 'our' brown people keeping the foreigners out and appearing to 'splash the cash' where it's wanted, they will still find support in the majority of the UK's economically liberal but socally conservative electorate.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Yes, and my counter argument to that is that anybody who thinks achieving power is the end not the means does not deserve my vote. The getting into power bit is entirely the means.
And hopefully more constructive with both wings of the party.
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