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Klipsch collective thread

Chris81

pfm Member
Hi,
because the discussion was offtopic in the Harbeth Thread, I started this thread for all topics about Klipsch speaker, so it is easier to find an more tidy.

I'm a low volume listener and one of the things I like about Klipsch is they have that high-efficiency good at low levels thing (as do Harbeth). They are odd things in some respects and certainly have quirks (e.g. no one should ever consider they have heard Klipsch if the amp used was solid state), but they have certainly taught me the 'thing' that horns can do and nothing else does. When I owned Harbeth Compact 7ES and Klipsch Heresys the comparison was fascinating as they each did things right the other got wrong. All speakers are compromises.

FWIW I think there is a staggeringly good speaker in the La Scalas somewhere trying to get out; every now and again they floor me with a level of clarity, dynamic integrity and believability I've not heard from anything else, then I'll stick something else on that makes them sound remarkably odd and coloured (some of this is down to a compromised installation, they are in a second system with less than the best source and amplification). The bizarre thing is it is acoustic music they get the most right - I grew up in a house with a grand piano and the La Scalas are one of exceptionally few speakers that, given a great recording, can get that 'thing' that makes a piano sound like an actual piano rather than a hi-fi playing a piano or a digital sampling keyboard or whatever. I'm convinced it is a combination of real dynamic freedom and efficiency and a mid horn that covers such a huge range (400Hz to 6Khz). The little Heresys were surprisingly good at this too.

They do that 'thing' that single-driver speakers such as Lowthers can do and no two way speaker can. It's a note-shape/envelope/freedom thing. Not many three-way speakers can do it either. With La Scalas it does come at a price though; the horn-loaded bass though lightening fast and articulate is very limited in extension (drops like a stone at 50Hz) and there is an annoying cabinet resonance from, I tnink, the bass-horn walls. Klipsch designs are brilliant IMHO but seem spoilt by more than a bit of penny-pinching. Some cabinet bracing here and there and I suspect the La Scala would be truly exceptional. Ive already got fancy third-party crossovers in mine (ALK Universals). If cost were no object I would unquestionably have huge no-compromise horn speakers. That much I do know. My project for this year is to try and get rather more out of my La Scalas. I've got a little Decware SET on the way - frightening to think that 2.3 Watts equates to about 111db headroom.

Do you use a subwoofer with your La Scalas?

Which amp do you use?

How big is your room?

How far is your listening distance?

What kind of music are you listening to?

Kind reguards Christian
 
I'm in!

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An old pic of one of my La Scalas, the system is currently the TV and a Cambridge 752BD multi-disc player as sources, Tisbury passive pre and Quad 306, though I have a Decware SE84UFO 2.3 Watt SET amp on order from the States which hopefully should arrive in a couple of weeks. There's a thread on my La Scala journey so far in the classic room (link), but to sumarise quickly they are a 1993 pair and I've installed an after-market pair of ALK Universal crossovers which have smoothed them out a fair bit. I'm hoping the little single ended triode gets them singing as they should, I tried one briefly a year or two ago so it isn't a total leap in the dark. Klipsch hate solid state amps IME, the good thing being that at 105db sensitivity one only needs a tiny little tube amp to blow the windows out, and little ones are a lot cheaper than big ones both to buy and to run!
 
Hello.
Nice.
I've heard several ss amps and some of them sounded good with the Cornwall 3 and some not, as well as with ta.

I love my Harbeth because of its natural sound and tonality, but the Cornwall and Klipschorn are also lovely because of their stageing? and the dynamic and power and drive.

The La Scalas I did't heard so far.

But it has "only" about 97dB sensitivity real meassured, but that is still more then enough.

Do you use a sub?
 
Do you use a sub?

For a while I had a pair of BK 12" 400 watt subs but ended up unable to dial them in so they added anything much and didn't slow the bass down. La Scalas have lightening fast bass even if it is rather light in weight. Mine being in the alcoves/corners pick up a little more weight, but it was the ALK Universal crossovers that made the biggest difference as they seem to put the mid-horn more in perspective. My stock crossovers are likely tired and in need of a re-cap, but the difference was clear.

Here's an old in-room trace from when I was driving them with an Amptastic T-Amp (I very marginally prefer the Quad 306, but there isn't much in it):

16633260943_418a49f1e7_c.jpg


That is without subs and both channels on from the listening seat. Anything below 50Hz will be largely room/corner-gain as the LS themselves have nothing of note below as the bass horn just isn't big enough.

PS If you are familiar with KHorns the La Scala is the same top and mid exactly, but with a more compromised and less extended bass horn. I've never heard KHorns, nor Cornwalls for that matter. Just these La Scalas, and I had a pair of Heresys previously.
 
Hello.
Nice.
I've heard several ss amps and some of them sounded good with the Cornwall 3 and some not, as well as with ta.

I love my Harbeth because of its natural sound and tonality, but the Cornwall and Klipschorn are also lovely because of their stageing? and the dynamic and power and drive.

The La Scalas I did't heard so far.

But it has "only" about 97dB sensitivity real meassured, but that is still more then enough.

Do you use a sub?

I have listened to one of these horn speakers at a mate's place 6 years ago. I have forgotten which model was it though. The dedicated room was huge, at least 5.0m x 8.0m. Far-field listening. Coincidentally he also owns the Harbeth (2 pairs of Harbeth). I would say, very different sound between these and the Harbeth. They are very dynamic, play very loud and are very "live" sounding. But tonality is no where as accurate as the Harbeth. They are a bit unrefined and *rough* sounding next to the Harbeth. Some flea-powered tube amps were used to drive these speakers.
 
Sorry my englisch is not so good.
Can you explain what you mean with "so they added anything much and didn't slow the bass down."? Why couldn't you dial with the sub?

I've heard much positive things about the ALK. Also with the one for the K-Orn and the Cornwall.
 
I have listened to one of these horn speakers at a mate's place 6 years ago. I have forgotten which model was it though. The dedicated room was huge, at least 5.0m x 8.0m. Far-field listening. Coincidentally he also owns the Harbeth (2 pairs of Harbeth). I would say, very different sound between these and the Harbeth. They are very dynamic, play very loud and are very "live" sounding. But tonality is no where as accurate as the Harbeth. They are a bit unrefined and *rough* sounding next to the Harbeth. Some flea-powered tube amps were used to drive these speakers.

Perfect summed up.:)
 
I have listened to one of these horn speakers at a mate's place 6 years ago. I have forgotten which model was it though. The dedicated room was huge, at least 5.0m x 8.0m. Far-field listening. Coincidentally he also owns the Harbeth (2 pairs of Harbeth). I would say, very different sound between these and the Harbeth. They are very dynamic, play very loud and are very "live" sounding. But tonality is no where as accurate as the Harbeth. They are a bit unrefined and *rough* sounding next to the Harbeth. Some flea-powered tube amps were used to drive these speakers.

This is a comparison that hopefully I will be able to schedule in the next few weeks... I am discussing with 2 dealers nearby to hear the La Scalas II against the Harbeth SHL5+ and M30.1

I am really wondering which will be "better" option for classical music and jazz, especially which will have the weight of a piano.Can the La Scalas match the refinement of the Harbeths?

On the topic of La Scalas, what is the general opinion about room size and suitable amps, do they need tube exotics?
 
The thing that is so odd about Klipsch tonality is they can nail acoustic instruments, especially piano, in a way I've never heard from Harbeths, Quads etc, i.e. the speakers that are so often cited as being the most neutral out there. Baring in mind this is my TV rig the area it shines the most is on things like BBC Proms, Young Musician etc, stuff where you'd expect neutrality to be key. It is rock where they fall down for me as heavy bass can on occasion excite what I assume is a box-resonance in the bass-horn. These are remarkably resonant cabs that sound like a bad wardrobe when tapped. A lot of people add plywood wedges mid-way down the bass horn to address this, but I don't have anything even aproaching the woodwork skills to do that, let alone to the standards of fit and finish I'd want. The La Scala II apparently has far more solid cabinets so this is less of an issue.
 
On the topic of La Scalas, what is the general opinion about room size and suitable amps, do they need tube exotics?

They detest solid state IMO and sound thin and dry in such company. Definitely don't judge them until you have heard them with tubes, preferably a single-ended triode of some description. They are crazy efficient so 2-5 watts is all you need. I very much doubt I've ever put more than half a watt through mine! They apparently sound better in larger rooms, but I'm stuck with what I have.

The Klipsch forum is an excellent resourse and is rammed full of advice, tweaks and tips. There are many ways of taking these ancient designs right up to modern high-end performance if one has some basic DIY skills.
 
In the 70's and 80's I frequented the largest Klipsch dealer in the US who sold Klipschorns, LaScalas, Belle Klipsch, Cornwalls and Heresy's and not a tube amp was found in the store. I imagine Paul Klipsch was mortified!
 
In the 70's and 80's I frequented the largest Klipsch dealer in the US who sold Klipschorns, LaScalas, Belle Klipsch, Cornwalls and Heresy's and not a tube amp was found in the store. I imagine Paul Klipsch was mortified!

I bet he was. One of his sayings was "what America really needs is a good five watt amp!". I think he sneered a little at push pull, though loads of Klipsch fans love big McIntosh tube amps etc. There are a lot using solid state too, but they seem to be pretty much exclusively rock fans who like very, very high volume. There seem to be two distinct Klipsch camps; the SETs 'n' jazz and classical (which is where PWK was as I understand it), and rock fans who like them as they will go to insane club PA volume levels with a typical solid state receiver or whatever. I'm very firmly in the former camp!
 
As far as I remember PWK was very happy about the first ss because he now was able to get relativly linear and reproducible conditions to test and hear his speakers.
VA are more prone to impedance variation/oscillation?.
The Scala has a impedance minimum at 3.5Ohm and and the K-orn at 2.7Ohm. The Cornwall is more friendly at this point with 4Ohm
 
The Scala has a impedance minimum at 3.5Ohm and and the K-orn at 2.7Ohm. The Cornwall is more friendly at this point with 4Ohm

13216001133_3edf9e1173_c.jpg


The ALK Universal crossovers (above) apparently present a constant 8 Ohm load. I've no idea how they do this, but I think it makes life for the amp a little easier. The stock Klipsch crossovers tend to have a huge rise in impedance around the mid-horn, IIRC Heresys go up to about 70 Ohms or something like that! Obviously very easy for the amp, but it being much easier than the bass is obviously an issue. The new 'UFO' range of Decware amps have impedance switches between 4/8 Ohms, so should be happy enough. Surprisingly their little SE84 SET has always been at its best into lowish impedance, 4 Ohms or so. Usually tube amps prefer 8-16.

The ALK crossovers also have selectable taps (the red leads with the blue clips) so you can alter the mid-horn level. I have mine set on the default (2/5) setting which sounds right to me. Open and airy, but back it off and one tends to notice a bit of boxiness from the bass cab.
 
Please could you explain me that. Thank you.:)

I actually measured it:

27031405915_54d8e3a80d_b.jpg


As you can see the subs just pushed up the 45Hz room node (I assume that's what it is) without really bringing any extension. The La Scalas, despite their flaws, have about the fastest bass I've ever heard from a loudspeaker, they move air like a electrostatic speaker or headphone with no perceivable overhang aside from the aforementioned panel resonance (which is quite high in freq, low hundreds of Hz). The subs, even as a sealed box unit, just seemed to slow the bass timing without adding anything. I'm sure with electronic room correction I could fix that, but it is a path I do not want to travel. Based on past experience a nice little tube amp warms them up nicely whilst bringing a bigger and more open sound, so that is my direction of travel. In some respects I wish I'd kept one of the subs as it would be interesting to try with the JR149s in another system, but I haven't the space for it there to be honest. The subs were fun turned up a bit louder with Hollywood crash/bang style movies though!
 
In the 70's and 80's I frequented the largest Klipsch dealer in the US who sold Klipschorns, LaScalas, Belle Klipsch, Cornwalls and Heresy's and not a tube amp was found in the store. I imagine Paul Klipsch was mortified!

We had a similar store here. They sold McIntosh, Yamaha, Kenwood, and B&O for electronics, not a tube in sight. All the guys in the repair shop were tube fanatics though. I don't know where they stood in the ranking of US Klipsch dealers, but they were certainly the largest in Klipsch's home state.
 
If using SS they likely need current drive. Eight Ohms in series would be a good start and given the huge sensitivity most SS amplifiers will still blow the walls down in this drive mode.
IIRC when I visited a couple of years back the Heresy certainly sounded fuller and more balanced using a 4 Ohm output setting on the prototype amp I brought along.
 


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