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King Charles III

Discussion in 'off topic' started by TheDecameron, Sep 8, 2022.

  1. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    The situation in America is truly scary now with schools in GOP areas frequently being banned from teaching critical race theory due to white supremacists not liking their white supremacist slave-trading past being scrutinised. As ever whatever the very worst elements of the Republican party get away with today the Tories will plagiarise tomorrow.

    There is still vast amounts of money from the slave trade, colonialism etc sloshing around in the right-wing institutions of both countries. They will do everything they possibly can to sell a revisionist nostalgia of “national greatness” when the truth was brutal violence, invasion, occupation, plunder, theft, human trafficking, slavery and torture. History should be accurate and impartial. It should be defined entirely by facts and evidence, never fear or capitulation to power. What is happening in America and has happened in the UK pretty much for centuries is akin to holocaust denial.
     
    ks.234 likes this.
  2. Cheese

    Cheese Bitter lover

    Lefties also visit the British Museum, I take it that they also take advantage of the heritage of colonialism.

    May I ask you something, Tony, do you feel guilty for what your ancestors did ? Provided they were white and British.
     
  3. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    No guilt personally. I’m not a tribalist, nationalist, or monarchist. I am also an atheist. None of this is on me. Should I care about such things, which I don’t, my ancestors were very likely Irish (at least on my father’s side) and therefore probably suffering at the hands of the English too.

    I just don’t believe in lying about history to protect a whole raft of nasty right-wing institutions. History should be taught with all the impartiality and evidence-based approach of science IMHO. Behaviours, attitudes and societal norms should be explored and analysed with detachment, never excused or airbrushed out due to the ugliness of current politics.
     
    DonQuixote99 and ks.234 like this.
  4. Cheese

    Cheese Bitter lover

    Fair enough. Not that my ancestors were any better BTW.
     
  5. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    I'm slowly realising how lucky I was in being taught British history from a sceptical, non-aligned viewpoint. We spent quite a lot of time studying such non-glorious aspects of British history as the Irish potato famine, and the disastrous Crimean War, and very little time on the glories of Empire.
     
  6. tones

    tones Tones deaf

    One of the interesting things about going through state school in Northern Ireland in the 1960s was that we were taught NO Irish history whatsoever, only English history. I wonder what they were taught by way of history in the parallel Catholic school system. In the end, I had to learn it by myself by extensive reading, and dump a lot of Unionist mythology along the way.
     
    droodzilla likes this.
  7. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    The Glory of the British Empire isn’t so much taught as assumed. The war on woke is about not challenging cherished assumptions
     
  8. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    It is all about maintaining a very carefully manicured eternal rose-tinted revisionist nostalgia of English fair-play, exceptionalism and leadership rather than lifting the curtain and looking at the real history of religious crusades, monarchy, imperialism, colonialism, slavery etc. It has resulted in an entirely skewed and revisionist mindset high on pomp and pageantry, and low on reality. It is gaslighting. A endless national propaganda narrative gently emanating from every institution of state including those that really should know better (e.g. the Labour Party). It is so omnipresent it needs remarkably little force to maintain. Any attempts to push-back against it with evidence and logic, e.g. #BLM, are often met with indignation and outrage from the unquestioning masses.
     
  9. Dogberry

    Dogberry pfm Member

  10. Kirk

    Kirk pfm Member

    It is (and I was being sarcastic btw) but Cambridge and other elite institutions like Oxford have caused quite a lot of damage to this country and the world at large. Should they at least not pay reparations?
     
  11. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    It isn’t for me to define. I just believe in honesty. I can see the revisionism and gaslighting all around, I’m aware of the distortions, but anything beyond that needs to be negotiated by all stakeholders. I doubt it is possible to offer reparations beyond returning many of the items stolen and housed in the British Museum, within the royal family etc. I’d support that, but really all I’m arguing for is the honest telling of history. Do not flinch from our barbarism and exploitative behaviour. Explain the mechanisms behind the wealth that still funds much of our Tory institutions and monarchy. We should never see greatness in violent oppression, slavery and theft.
     
  12. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    We could/should return the Koh-i-noor diamond.
     
  13. Cheese

    Cheese Bitter lover

    Yes, there it will be given to the poor.
     
  14. Spraggons Den

    Spraggons Den pfm Member

    We studied the Siege of Krishnapur in English Lit' and learnt about the massacre at Amritsar in history - comprehensive school obvs.
     
  15. ff1d1l

    ff1d1l pfm Member

    It doesn't matter what they do with it - its their own property.
     
  16. Cheese

    Cheese Bitter lover

    Good luck
     
  17. Jamie

    Jamie pfm Member

  18. MVV

    MVV pfm Member

    Well you could but they ****ed up the re-cut so it's about half the size it was in the Taj.
     
  19. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

  20. Nick_G

    Nick_G pfm Member

    Would the diamond not belong to India? IIRC it's from the famous old Golconda fields which is nowadays in the vicinity of the city of Hyderabad.
     

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