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Just heard my first gramophone live.

kennyh

kennyh

pfm Member
I was gifted this old gramophone yesterday by a lovely elderly lady we'd helped out recently, she dropped it off this morning saying she knew I liked stuff like this but apologised as she'd never heard it work recently and last time she heard it was over 50 years ago. She also said she's dropping off something else tomorrow but won't tell me what it is.

So I gave it a wind and stuck a 78 on it from a collection of records my late grandfather owned, he passed away in the 70's and I'd never seen them before as they were just in a box in our loft........another story there about record sleeves and long defunct Liverpool record stores.........jeez I didn't know there had been that many.

Anyway, it played and had that super nostalgic sound I'd only ever heard via the tv when one was featured, I loved it.
I've done my homework on it but just struggling to nail exactly what it is. I've discovered it's a Decca Dulcephone made by barnett samuel company and dated 17/12/23 making it 95 years old. This was all on the paper label inside when I stripped it down. It played well but ran out of puff mid record, hence me opening it up.

The internet is a mine of info. so I looked up the servicing techniques and set to work.
Amazing to find it was just a big Swiss made watch mechanism inside.......or similar anyway lol.

I thoroughly cleansed and degreased components and then re oiled and greased where appropriate after tightening various loose screws etc. A clean up of the chrome and an outer tidy up then I was ready to clean a few more 78's and give it another go.

Really do love it now, runs sweet as a nut and can play two 78's without touching it. A piece of hifi that will be an all time keeper. Worth little money but I'm over the moon to have a 95 year old piece of equipment playing as well as it probably did before my parents were born.

I still don't know the exact model, I think it could be a 1A trench or a Junior. I'd be grateful if anyone here could do a 100% id. Just can't make it out on label but I'm leaning towards a 1A.

Cheers guys.

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Excellent stuff! I’ve got a HMV 102:

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(very old system pic, not like that now!)

I have maybe 30-35 old jazz 78s, Louis Armstrong, Fats Waller, Duke Ellington etc, and they sound rather wonderful played this old wind-up player.

PS You do realise you should change the needle every record? They are still available, e.g. here.
 
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Thanks Tony for that and all the info. too. I actually got with it a little HMV pill box with a stack of needles in it, I thought it was overkill but now I've heard what you've said it's obviously not. Thanks for the link too.

Love your 102 and what a bloody coincidence. I showed a mate in our car group the Decca and he's got 4 off 102's waiting to be refurbed. Apparently he had a business re covering them in classic car decor and selling them on. These are the one's he has left.

Do you listen to yours much Tony?, I never thought I'd be interested but the sound and its quirkiness has got to me, love it and as I say I need some 78's where I know the tune.

If you are interested in these old Liverpool record shop sleeves I'll post some pics for you. I think I'll actually frame some of them. Couldn't believe I've had them all these years and never seen them. It appears there was a record shop on every street corner at one time lol. Also, a city centre shop with a 3 digit phone number haha. Thanks again Tony.
 
I very rarely use it, mainly because I never stop buying piles of CDs so always have a ton of new stuff to listen to! I like having it around as to my ears it sounds so much better/more coherent than trying to play these old records on a ‘proper’ hi-fi. It just sounds ‘right’ for the basic recording quality.

Would be interested to see some of your covers for sure. I’ve very few, most of mine are in rather tatty plain brown ones.
 
I repaired a wind up gramophone last year. It had a metal Harrods label attached, but I assume it was made by a genuine gramophone manufacturer. All it required was a good clean and lubrication.
 
Morning Martyn. Interested to hear what you actually did to yours. I found a few articles on servicing and basically blew the 90+ years of dust and materials from it, of which there was a lot. I then degreased with a solvent all the moving parts I could see then re applied light oil to bearings and shafts and some moly grease to all gears. I then found it would play for far longer on the same amount of cranks than it did. I also realised the speed control started to work better. At first I had to have it dialed up to "fast" to play, after relubing it now sits at slow to get it spinning at circa 78rpm.

2 jobs I'd like to do but never, just wondering if you did.

1) The drum where the spring resides, did you remove and re-grease the spring? I'll be honest and admit I was a bit wary of it unravelling if I tried, so thought I'd get more info. on it first.

2) I noticed the "brake pad" has gone hard and does squeak a bit when I slowly stop the turntable, I'm guessing fresh material would stop this slight noise.......only happens when brake touches the table.

In all, not much to go wrong with these is there? I'm still amazed there is no electric in it whatsoever and how it transmits such a wholesome sound. Here's hoping I don't get hooked on this now lol.

Cheers.
 
Be very careful of the spring, servicing them is apparently not easy and apparently quite dangerous as it is sharp and can fly out of the can if you are not careful. There is an old guy down the road from me who collects and knows everything about these things and even he won’t go near the spring.

I’ve not done more than apply a little light grease/oil to my 102 (in fact the bloke mentioned above did it), though it is a very late one, 1958 IIRC, and was allegedly NOS so very low if any wear. It will get through a full 12” side on a full wind and easily get through the more normal 10”. Must give it a spin at some point as I’ve not run it for a year or two.
 
I think you are right Tony, I saw the same warning about the spring escaping from the can and causing havoc, hence I left it well alone on this occasion. I'd also had similar experience of this with a large petrol powered F1 car in 1/8th scale. It's pull start went on the blink and I opened the casing of the starter box..........about 3 miles of spring leapt out never to go back in again lol. Hopefully it is ok anyway as the Phono will play a full disc on a decent wind and then takes another minute or so to stop after record has played. I believe it is best to let the spring fully unwind after use, then just crank one turn of pressure on it to stop it detaching, this is what I read anyway.

Nice to have a guy on your doorstep too Tony who can help and advise you on yours.

Amazed to hear yours is 1958, I'd never have believed these were still in production at that time, amazing what you learn.

Give it a spin again Tony when you've time, the sound of this has really got to me and it's so tactile compared to modern hifi.
Just need some famous 78 period tracks now, I notice well known period songs are quite expensive whereas unknown 78 records are 10 a penny.

Cheers.
 
kennyh said:
Amazed to hear yours is 1958, I'd never have believed these were still in production at that time, amazing what you learn.
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They were still in use for some time after that all around the world where electricity was in short supply. The Beatles White Album was pressed up in several 78s for the Indian market (I'd like to have a set of those discs).
 
Mum and dad had one ofc, but was surprised when, at a posh dinner party in '93, the host pulled out just such a machine and the sound was, I agree, lovely. Horns, esp metal horns just do something to old Satchmo records. Still got most of my Mums 78's...Edith Piaf, Ellington, bit of classical etc.
 
kennyh said:
I was gifted this old gramophone yesterday by a lovely elderly lady we'd helped out recently, she dropped it off this morning saying she knew I liked stuff like this but apologised as she'd never heard it work recently and last time she heard it was over 50 years ago. She also said she's dropping off something else tomorrow but won't tell me what it is.

So I gave it a wind and stuck a 78 on it from a collection of records my late grandfather owned, he passed away in the 70's and I'd never seen them before as they were just in a box in our loft........another story there about record sleeves and long defunct Liverpool record stores.........jeez I didn't know there had been that many.

Anyway, it played and had that super nostalgic sound I'd only ever heard via the tv when one was featured, I loved it.
I've done my homework on it but just struggling to nail exactly what it is. I've discovered it's a Decca Dulcephone made by barnett samuel company and dated 17/12/23 making it 95 years old. This was all on the paper label inside when I stripped it down. It played well but ran out of puff mid record, hence me opening it up.

The internet is a mine of info. so I looked up the servicing techniques and set to work.
Amazing to find it was just a big Swiss made watch mechanism inside.......or similar anyway lol.

I thoroughly cleansed and degreased components and then re oiled and greased where appropriate after tightening various loose screws etc. A clean up of the chrome and an outer tidy up then I was ready to clean a few more 78's and give it another go.

Really do love it now, runs sweet as a nut and can play two 78's without touching it. A piece of hifi that will be an all time keeper. Worth little money but I'm over the moon to have a 95 year old piece of equipment playing as well as it probably did before my parents were born.

I still don't know the exact model, I think it could be a 1A trench or a Junior. I'd be grateful if anyone here could do a 100% id. Just can't make it out on label but I'm leaning towards a 1A.

Cheers guys.

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Superb :)
 
So out of interest what would a Beatles 78 be worth now do you reckon? As I say 78's seem very cheap, but if it's a famous track they can be quite expensive.
 
I have a HMV "Table Grand" 103 circa 1923, with a no 4 soundbox and a Columbia 110 suitcase portable circa 1948. Both rebuilt by me and in perfect order. Even back in the day, the various manufacturers had a range of machines, from basic, to best quality performance. There were also a number of specialist niche makers, such as EMG and Gilbert, the machines being very high end indeed and cost the equivalent of a very decent modern HiFi set up. Development of the acoustical method of playback continued long after electrical recording became the norm, particularly in the UK, as affordable mains electricity outwith the larger towns and cities was still quite rare, even in the 40's! Indeed I have some "Beltona" 78's of Scottish ceildh music from as recently as 1968 on 78 rpm discs, as much of the market for this genre was still without electricity. The Nimbus Prima Voce recordings are very interesting. I have a number featuring Gigli and John MacCormack. I also have a great number of the original acoustically as well as electrically recorded original 78's as transcribed to these cds. You have to forgive the limited frequency and dynamic range of the acoustical recordings, as well as the obvious mechanical systems limitations, but what stands out is that what you are listening to is a recording of a performance! No edits, no post production! What was played and sung there and then was what got cut onto the master disc, and you got a copy of that master, the original live event.
 
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