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Isolation Foo

About 3/4 years ago, I bought 3 packs of 4 Vibrapods, 8 for my speakers and 3 for my t/table. I did notice a very, very small but definite , dynamic improvement. They cost me (at the time) around £40.
Now I see that Nordost and one or two others, have copied Vibrapods design, but they though - "We can't sell these isopods for £12 for 4, we have a status to retain "... let's see how this goes, "we'll ask between £350 - £550 a set. This is more in keeping with everyone's costly High-End gear. Oh look , the mugs are buying them ...see the power a name has"...:(
 
Si74 said:
Looking at the ridiculous prices of all manner of products costing an arm and a leg, backed up by a load of utter gibberish, it would seem isolation is the new snake oil.!
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I've used a number of different footer over the years, primarily under CD transports, but occasionally speakers.

(My system has been spike-free for over a decade, my view is they're usually free but can cause as many problems as they resolve).

Current favourites are IsoAcoustics Orea(?) doodads under the CD, previous incumbents include Cardas/Ayre wood blocks, Atlas McCallum isolators and Finite Elemente Ceraballs.

While all have a slightly different effect, the Oreas are clearly superior in one important parameter — I have two adult cats who treat the CD as a stepping stool to the windowsill behind the system, often at high speed (one enters every room like John Wayne barging through a set of saloon doors).

The adhesive nature of the Oreas means nothing slides, tips or crashes to the floor. Well worth every penny.
 
Locheeboy said:
About 3/4 years ago, I bought 3 packs of 4 Vibrapods, 8 for my speakers and 3 for my t/table. I did notice a very, very small but definite , dynamic improvement. They cost me (at the time) around £40.
Now I see that Nordost and one or two others, have copied Vibrapods design, but they though - "We can't sell these isopods for £12 for 4, we have a status to retain "... let's see how this goes, "we'll ask between £350 - £550 a set. This is more in keeping with everyone's costly High-End gear. Oh look , the mugs are buying them ...see the power a name has"...:(
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Can you show me the Nordost design that copies the Vibrapods design, because they look pretty different to me.
 
Why is it that makers of HiFi isolation measures do not show how their products perform? I know that it isn't difficult to measure.
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Because they don't have to. Most buyers know nothing about science or engineering so will believe the pseudoscience put out by the marketing department. "These elastomer isolators are specified for the actual weight of your equipment" Wow. Big deal. So are my shoes. Not too soft, not too hard. Rocket science, it isn't.

Accessories are a brilliant scheme for hifi retailers. They cost buttons to have made and best of all they don't replace anything in your system. If you need a new component, you have to get rid of the old one. Not so accessories.

DIY isolation is very easy indeed, and can be done for loose change. What sounds better under your CD player, squash balls, Blutak or a folded towel? Easy to find out, and costs less than a pint of beer to try. But most people can't be bothered, they want to buy the reassuringly expensive shiny gadget that the guy in the shop or the magazine tells them is the best.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
So are the springs that Manchester's Bridgewater Hall is built on, but I doubt they'd do much for your hifi! Just because something is designed for one isolation purpose (isolating my backside from ruts and potholes in the road) doesn't mean it'll do a different isolation job (that the 'designer' couldn't have anticipated, what with the pneumatic tyre predating hifi by a fair few decades). So if, by any chance, it does happen to do that other job, you can't really imply it was designed, by an engineer, to do so.

Edit: and to the OP, I've heard, and use the items in question. They do work remarkably well, and there are some well-accepted materials science reasons why they may be effective. I know the University of Manchester was consulted, and some pretty exotic materials were tested and rejected before the final product. I also know how labour-intensive the process of making the material is, and how expensive PEEK is as a raw material, in the sort of quantities used.
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The difference between a small child on a bike and a heavy turntable isn't that great, and I don't use a tyre, and inner tubes are very tunable. I put in only just enough air to lift the turntable, and resonant frequencies seem to be well subsonic. Pneumatic tyres were designed specifically to absorb bumps in the road, and they do a good job under a turntable. As has been said above, it's not rocket science. Thanks for the info about Bridgewater Hall - interesting. I wasn't recommending large stiff structures for turntable isolation, so it's a bit of a confusing analogy.
 
sonddek said:
The difference between a small child on a bike and a heavy turntable isn't that great, and I don't use a tyre, and inner tubes are very tunable. I put in only just enough air to lift the turntable, and resonant frequencies seem to be well subsonic. Pneumatic tyres were designed specifically to absorb bumps in the road, and they do a good job under a turntable. As has been said above, it's not rocket science. Thanks for the info about Bridgewater Hall - interesting. I wasn't recommending large stiff structures for turntable isolation, so it's a bit of a confusing analogy.
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I don’t want to annoy you, but you’ve missed the point. Your comment about engineers was what is known as an ‘appeal to authority’, but it was misplaced. The authority you appealed to couldn’t have engineered the product you use.
 
Just to clarify, I've had various isolation devices under all my components and speakers for 20 odd years. Aurio Pros, Townshend, Auaral Thrills, Voodoo Plats etc, etc.
Rack is a Townshend. Only thing never benefited was the Oracle, possibly because it has a suspension that actually works.
The 'Foo' which is often bandied about on here was only relating to some of the ridiculous prices for ridiculously over engineered and overpriced stuff that seems to proliferate these days.
 
Si74 said:
Just to clarify, I've had various isolation devices under all my components and speakers for 20 odd years. Aurio Pros, Townshend, Auaral Thrills, Voodoo Plats etc, etc.
Rack is a Townshend. Only thing never benefited was the Oracle, possibly because it has a suspension that actually works.
The 'Foo' which is often bandied about on here was only relating to some of the ridiculous prices for ridiculously over engineered and overpriced stuff that seems to proliferate these days.
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I wouldn't mind if it *were* overengineered. All I see is a series of basic structures involving simple metal springs, with or without damping, or polymer springs, dressed up in shiny cases. Take away the fancy package and the chrome plate and you have something that might come off a bike or a pushchair. In fact machine feet, that come in various sizes, often share a design with these things, if not the polished finish.
 
stevec67 said:
I wouldn't mind if it *were* overengineered. All I see is a series of basic structures involving simple metal springs, with or without damping, or polymer springs, dressed up in shiny cases. Take away the fancy package and the chrome plate and you have something that might come off a bike or a pushchair. In fact machine feet, that come in various sizes, often share a design with these things, if not the polished finish.
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The shiny cases made the difference regarding the Gaia III. Neither my wife or I could hear any benefit, but she was sold on the look of them. That made them a keeper.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I don’t want to annoy you, but you’ve missed the point. Your comment about engineers was what is known as an ‘appeal to authority’, but it was misplaced. The authority you appealed to couldn’t have engineered the product you use.
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Not annoyed at all - I suppose my point was there has been plenty of isolation foo. I recall a system where a turntable sat on ball bearings in upper and lower cups. That scheme appeared to have zero horizontal damping and zero vertical isolation. I think the argument was that the turntable had all the vertical isolation anyone could need so vertical audio-frequency coupling is good. Compared to that, an inner tube seems to be based on sound engineering principles, but perhaps I just don't understand foo. And don't forget Mana.

Search me.
 
leroyd said:
The shiny cases made the difference regarding the Gaia III. Neither my wife or I could hear any benefit, but she was sold on the look of them. That made them a keeper.
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To be fair they do look very nice indeed. Jesus though, at £50 each they want to.
 
I've tried lots of isolation stuff over the years, bought, made, borrowed. I keep an inner tube under my deck and felt pads between speakers and stand tops. Nowt else made any difference
 
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