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Is there any science to back up these little feet

BE718 said:
The hobby "research" (BTW I work in vibration, have an instrumentation and measuement systems background in the aero industry - my current employer works in areas of acoustics, AIV, FEA and so on) is only presented here to demonstrate some things which are, and of course not going on. Its not research in the sense you talk about.

This all started with the subject of microphony and the position of some that their equipment stands were effective at isolating vibration from the equipment. A cursory glance at the product suggested that it would be fairly ineffective at isolating vibration. A few measurements with CSI2130 and B&K Pulse demonstrated that this was indeed the case. The measurements also demonstrated that things like solid metal cones are not particularly good at isolating vibration either - not that I needed convincing of that, but some do. :)

I take on board your comments about the size of the audio industry, however is the research to develop well engineered product really that esoteric? I think the are where it does become a lot more challenging is psychoacoustics.

I also tend to share TonyLs position on this - namely that the foo merchants that pervade some of the audio market do nothing to help a shrinking industry.
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I'm aware that you know about measurements....so the comment was not really in your direction. It was more about the coin thing on the stand that did not fall off.:p

And no, it's not esoteric to develop well engineered products. I have spent a lot more money on equipment and software than most other Audio companies on this planet just because of that reason.
 
Having visited finkaudio and a number of manufacturers, I can confirm that Karl-Heinz's facility is a place where quite a lot of insight into the measured behaviour of audio equipment can be gleaned, more than in many manufacturers' design departments. Interestingly for me, he finds the ultimate arbiter to be listening, and his listening room is certainly good enough to reveal quite a lot of differences between components.
 
Markus S said:
Having visited finkaudio and a number of manufacturers, I can confirm that Karl-Heinz's facility is a place where quite a lot of insight into the measured behaviour of audio equipment can be gleaned, more than in many manufacturers' design departments. Interestingly for me, he finds the ultimate arbiter to be listening, and his listening room is certainly good enough to reveal quite a lot of differences between components.
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You might be surprised to find I have no argument with that approach, but clearly the two go hand in hand.
 
BE718 said:
One aspect informs the other and neither should be taken as definitive.
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One aspect doesn't always inform the other though, does it?

Especially if one has been hasty, careless and jumped to conclusions.

If we think we know what something is not this does not mean that we know what something is.
 
Steven Toy said:
One aspect doesn't always inform the other though, does it?

Especially if one has been hasty, careless and jumped to conclusions.

If we think we know what something is not this does not mean that we know what something is.
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.

I think that is what one would describe as pedantry and taking my comment to a literal extreme.

I am sure you can think of exceptions to any situation.



Anyway, are you admitting you have been hasty, careless and jumped to conclusions? ;)
 
BE718 said:
I also tend to share TonyLs position on this - namely that the foo merchants that pervade some of the audio market do nothing to help a shrinking industry.
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But the foo merchants like Linn and Naim saved the British home audio industry in the 70s when manufacturing competitive low tech consumer goods ceased to be viable in this country. If you cannot compete in terms of technical performance for a price then changing the rules to a "subjective" performance for a price is a smart thing to do even if it does remove some people like the technically literate from your potential customers. The British home audio companies that tried to survive by moving up market largely failed even if some of the brands are still around as part of mainly Asian companies.

Foo is an integral part of home audio in the UK and not optional. A more interesting question is how large is the market for (almost) foo-free home audio products? Too small for a viable business?
 
Thirty years of magazines, manufacturers, retailers, it is really difficult to argue against foo,
it is deeply engrained and ubiquitous.
Keith.
 
Purite Audio said:
Thirty years of magazines, manufacturers, retailers, it is really difficult to argue against foo,
it is deeply engrained and ubiquitous.
Keith.
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That does this mean that you carry an expensive brand such as Weiss because you gave in to what you perceive as Foo?
 
Steven Toy said:
Speak for yourself!

Objectivists do not want to spend money on audio. They want to convince themselves that the best sound can be bought for peanuts apart from the loudspeakers and room treatment.

Of course they don't want someone waxing lyrical about a tweak or a box that allegedly improves the quality of music reproduction. Of course they want to trivialise such findings and declare them wanting of rigour.

A majority of audio enthusiasts do not think this way which is why audio magazines sell and audio blogs are read.

Of course objectivists want to give the impression that their way of thinking is the default option. It is a false impression.

I find reading someone's subjective impression of how a box sounds far more interesting than staring at a few graphs with squiggly lines.
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Great post, absolutely agree.
 
A subjective approach to buying audio isn't foo. It just means you've chosen based on what you subjectively prefer.

I would reserve foo as a description of components and tweaks that are closer to, say, astrology than to astronomy.

Joe
 
John said:
And many of them carry on like ex-smokers needing to educate others...
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I cannot see what position you are referring to, but any opinion about it is fine to me the same.

What puzzles me at time is the agressiveness in attacks about matters that are just meant to be a spare time hobby.

Thus if I say: I fail to see the point..
Mean I don't hear it, can be I don't hear so good anymore, I hear no difference, but maybe there is one, in case I don't hear it, well it does not matter to me.
Not speaking for others.

So instead doubting the mental sanity of someone in a public discussion is simply unpolite.
Even if he was right in the discussed matter & his counterpart was about to go deaf due to age, it is not a way of responding that appears apropriate to me.

I prefer constructive suggestions if I tend to disagree about something:
i.e.: did you try a thermopal plate with cloth underneath this speaker instead of spikes? he may try or not, like or not, either way, to me it's ok.

Personally seing such attacks, I cannot but feell that something's not ok and it also seems likely to me this has neither to do with HiFi, noor with music at all.
 
Steven Toy has been banned for a week. A usual, no discussion of a banned member, please, as he does not have the right of reply.

Markus - moderating
 
Torstoi, so where do you stand on things like that Shakti halographic soundifeld organizer, acrylic cable lifters, or those little steel bowls big enough to be a mouse sink? Is there a point at which your incredulity is so large that you have to say 'enough!'.

Some people just have a lower tolerance for nonsensical bullshit and gross inaccuracies in marketing, that's all.
 
Purite Audio said:
Weiss are superbly engineered products, they are the very anthisis of 'foo'
Keith.
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I can barely think of a more engineering/measurement lead brand. Their products blend exemplary audio quality with outstanding technical measurement. And in 7 years of following them I can't think of a single occasion where Daniel has made a far fetched claim. They are like Ayre and Passlabs there's no nonsense at all.
 
Markus S said:
Steven Toy has been banned for a week. A usual, no discussion of a banned member, please, as he does not have the right of reply.

Markus - moderating
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sorry, I had no idea he was banned.
I wasn't referring to anything in the past, solely this particular post reflected well how I feel, I liked it, that's all.

Regards, T
 
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