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Is there a case for legal action against the BBC

S

Schnitger

pfm Member
I've neither the knowledge, time or funds to launch legal action against the BBC. However, like many people that pay the licence fee, I can't use the Sounds App as it requires later iOS software than my ageing devices can use. I'm not in a position to splash out on new phones and tablets at the moment. (I suspect that when the BBC updates the TV iPlayer they'll do something similar).

I can use the Sounds website, despite having to sign in everytime it's used, but my point is that despite paying the same licence fee as someone who can use newer iOS systems, I am prevented from accessing the same services and apps as them.

Is there a case for legal action here? Surely the BBC is required to offer equal access to its apps and services for all those that pay the licence fee, provided it's technologically possible to do so (I believe James Purnell has responded to this issue by claiming Sounds would look dated if it were accessible to earlier iOS systems, which implies it's perfectly possible fot it to be used on pre iOS 11 devices).

I should add I'm not a BBC basher. I wouldn't want to be without it, especially the radio, but these changes have made its services and apps less accessible for me.
 
As I understand it Apple’s policy is current OS support for seven years, so surely if you are orphaned from the current iOS version your hardware is 7+ years old? I think that is a perfectly fair retirement date for the BBC to work to! Seven years is a very long time in computer terms and I’d personally not want to be running an unsupported/unpatched OS in today’s highly connected world.
 
Tony L said:
As I understand it Apple’s policy is current OS support for seven years, so surely if you are orphaned from the current iOS version your hardware is 7+ years old? I think that is a perfectly fair retirement date for the BBC to work to! Seven years is a very long time in computer terms and I’d personally not want to be running an unsupported/unpatched OS in today’s highly connected world.
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Built in obsolescence is environmentally abhorrent.

My iPad Mini still works pretty much as well as the day I bought it, but Apple deny me anything beyond iOS9.something. And they don’t patch it or offer security updates. And BBC Sounds won’t install, so I’m just as hacked off as the OP.
 
I have just as much trouble on my fully-up-to-date Android tablet.
It's not just the design that makes things much less user friendly than IPlayer Radio, but there are some serious bugs, for example being unable to access schedules without first closing/reopening the app.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Built in obsolescence is environmentally abhorrent.

My iPad Mini still works pretty much as well as the day I bought it, but Apple deny me anything beyond iOS9.something. And they don’t patch it or offer security updates. And BBC Sounds won’t install, so I’m just as hacked off as the OP.
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Within the rapid development world of modern tech, that would be similar to being cross that you can’t get spares for a steam traction engine, were we talking the life cycle of say transport systems.

There are so many interdependent developers on these tech projects that backwards generation support is always limited, lest it halts future innovation thru legacy hindrance.

Got to suck it up I’m afraid.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Built in obsolescence is environmentally abhorrent.

My iPad Mini still works pretty much as well as the day I bought it, but Apple deny me anything beyond iOS9.something. And they don’t patch it or offer security updates. And BBC Sounds won’t install, so I’m just as hacked off as the OP.
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I have a lot of sympathy for that viewpoint, though to my mind that is what Linux is for. I’d run that on your Mini rather than an obsolete unsecure version of OS X.

I realise this argument doesn’t work for a secure/locked system such as iOS, which is a problem, though I can also see this from the IT manufacturer’s perspective in that much of Apple’s marketing is security related and developing for old and obsolete operating systems would have a huge price tag. They are certainly far better than Google/Android in this regard who’s users are often orphaned within a couple of years and only a very small amount of the userbase run the current release.

It has always been the case, e.g. you couldn’t run Windows apps on DOS, 32bit Windows NT apps on Windows 3 etc. We are in a technological revolution just as big as the industrial revolution or whatever was, so things are moving fast. I guess the most logical policy from a green perspective is to mandate green construction techniques and ease of recycling, i.e. make less single-use plastic crap, less stuff that is glued together and can’t easily be dismantled for material reuse etc.
 
Schnitger said:
I've neither the knowledge, time or funds to launch legal action against the BBC. However, like many people that pay the licence fee, I can't use the Sounds App as it requires later iOS software than my ageing devices can use. I'm not in a position to splash out on new phones and tablets at the moment. (I suspect that when the BBC updates the TV iPlayer they'll do something similar).

I can use the Sounds website, despite having to sign in everytime it's used, but my point is that despite paying the same licence fee as someone who can use newer iOS systems, I am prevented from accessing the same services and apps as them.

Is there a case for legal action here? Surely the BBC is required to offer equal access to its apps and services for all those that pay the licence fee, provided it's technologically possible to do so (I believe James Purnell has responded to this issue by claiming Sounds would look dated if it were accessible to earlier iOS systems, which implies it's perfectly possible fot it to be used on pre iOS 11 devices).

I should add I'm not a BBC basher. I wouldn't want to be without it, especially the radio, but these changes have made its services and apps less accessible for me.
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Don’t be ridiculous.

you don’t need a licence to listen to BBC radio output.
 
My Sony telly (about 6 years old) announced to me that Amazon would no longer be available. A bit of Googling revealed US owners were offered $25 off an Amazon stick by way of compensation. Nothing here though.
Luckily, my BT badged Humax Youview recorder still get it ok.
 
Thorn said:
I've retired on the proceeds of crime (among other things).
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Well done. But you may want to read back and rephrase the above, since I believe it is still illegal to live off the proceeds of crimes, lawyer or otherwise. :D
 
Tony L said:
I have a lot of sympathy for that viewpoint, though to my mind that is what Linux is for. I’d run that on your Mini rather than an obsolete unsecure version of OS X.

I realise this argument doesn’t work for a secure/locked system such as iOS, which is a problem.
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And it’s precisely my problem. It’s an iPad mini, not Mac mini, so iOS, not OSX.

As to your point about longer term support costs, Apple products are, um, reassuringly expensive and AIUI Apple is now the biggest and most profitable tech company, having overtaken Microsoft.

And improved recyclability doesn’t get anybody off the hook. There’s an energy cost to recycling, and the embedded energy in manufacturing the original product and anything made from the recycled materials. And many people can’t afford to stay on the upgrade merry-go-round.

No, built in obsolescence is abhorrent. It arises from the need for constant growth which drives our current economic model, a model which is killing the planet.
 
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Schnitger said:
I've neither the knowledge, time or funds to launch legal action against the BBC. However, like many people that pay the licence fee, I can't use the Sounds App as it requires later iOS software than my ageing devices can use. I'm not in a position to splash out on new phones and tablets at the moment. (I suspect that when the BBC updates the TV iPlayer they'll do something similar).

I can use the Sounds website, despite having to sign in everytime it's used, but my point is that despite paying the same licence fee as someone who can use newer iOS systems, I am prevented from accessing the same services and apps as them.

Is there a case for legal action here? Surely the BBC is required to offer equal access to its apps and services for all those that pay the licence fee, provided it's technologically possible to do so (I believe James Purnell has responded to this issue by claiming Sounds would look dated if it were accessible to earlier iOS systems, which implies it's perfectly possible fot it to be used on pre iOS 11 devices).

I should add I'm not a BBC basher. I wouldn't want to be without it, especially the radio, but these changes have made its services and apps less accessible for me.
Click to expand...



I've got 3 tuners sitting doing nuffin. Give me a shout.
 
lazycat said:
I've got 3 tuners sitting doing nuffin. Give me a shout.
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Thanks very much for the offer. I can get BBC radio, so I don't need a tuner. I just can't access the Sounds app at the moment and am too tight fisted to fork out for a new iPad. iPhones are a definite no-no, given their ludicrous cost. I'll move to an android phone when my iPhone SE is unusable.
 
Bob McC said:
Don’t be ridiculous.

you don’t need a licence to listen to BBC radio output.
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I think you've intentionally missed my point.
You can listen on Tune In etc. But I think you need a licence in order to register with the Sounds app. Maybe I've got that wrong, but if not the fact remains I can't access all BBC services and apps. It's not an issue at all if you can afford, or want, to buy new tablets and phones etc every few years. But for people on small incomes or retired on modest pensions, that's not an option. It's very much a first world problem, but if seems to me that a public service broadcaster has a responsibility to make all its services accessible to as many people that pay the licence as possible. They're not doing that with Sounds (and the TV iPlayer is due for change, so I suspect the same will be true there). I can use my ageing iPad etc to stream at 16 bit resolution with a pre iOS 11/12 device, so the BBC should do the same with Sounds.
 
Schnitger said:
I think you've intentionally missed my point.
You can listen on Tune In etc. But I think you need a licence in order to register with the Sounds app. Maybe I've got that wrong, but if not the fact remains I can't access all BBC services and apps. It's not an issue at all if you can afford, or want, to buy new tablets and phones etc every few years. But for people on small incomes or retired on modest pensions, that's not an option. It's very much a first world problem, but if seems to me that a public service broadcaster has a responsibility to make all its services accessible to as many people that pay the licence as possible. They're not doing that with Sounds (and the TV iPlayer is due for change, so I suspect the same will be true there). I can use my ageing iPad etc to stream at 16 bit resolution with a pre iOS 11/12 device, so the BBC should do the same with Sounds.
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Neither the old IplayerRadio, nor the new Sounds have ever asked me if I have a licence (the IPlayer itself does).
What it does regularly ask for is my BBC logon and password.
 
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