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Is The Running In Of Electronics A Myth?

warming up is another myth.

my Accuphase amplifier sound nice the moment I play a song after switching on.
 
I have experienced a gradual change over the first week or so with new gear but, until recently, never with 2nd hand gear. The change has always been from good to better and never from bad to good. However, I recently purchased a 2nd hand power amp that had been out of use for quite a while (I believe) and that changed a little over the of the first few days, but again from good to better.

Now for some controversy - CABLES. Several years ago I built some speaker cables out of multiple strands of silver wire each in its own Teflon tube. Despite the considerable effort it took to thread the wire down the 4.5m tubes and then to encase them in spiral wrap and braided sleeving I did not really like them as they lived up, or down, to all I was warned silver would sound like. But having spent all that effort I decided to just leave them in place for a while with the radio playing through them (don’t know what, if anything, that did but it seemed like a worthy idea) and see what happened. After a couple of days of playing to the cats while was at work I could detect none of that original harshness and I have used them ever since. Possibly it is just not that hard to better NACA5.

Steve
 
I would expect that most good manufacturers will have amplifiers on a test bench for a period of time before final testing so I would say that buying from a manufacturer you wouldnt hear most of this initial running in as it has allready been done before you get it. That said if it is stored for a long period the capacitor forming proces would start again.
I am also into DIY and build my own amplifiers and agree with Martin Simon and Jez that there is an audible and measurable difference from the initial switch on.
Simons point is very valid related to a capicitor rated at say 50v that only sees say 6v and a few mili ampers in it circuit then is will take a considerable time to reform.
I am also building one of the paradise Phono stages and I intend to reform all of those electrolytics at 90% of their full voltage at a constant current on a test rig before soldering them into the boards.(yes I will dischage them before fitting :))

Another example of something that is measureable is Bias current and this changes gradually from cold to its operating temperature range this may or may not be auidible as well on some amplifiers.

Alan
 
Tend to agree with those who think that, if it does occur, it probably isn't audible. With the exception of cartridges on turntables, my amp, CD player and DAC have always sounded out of the box as they do now, which is good.

A lot of this running/burning in thing seems to come from not initially likeing the sound of a component, then getting used to it. I'm pretty sure that, if you ran blind tests comparing two components one of which was fresh out of the box and the other that had run in for 1000 hours, no-one would be able reliable to pick which was which.

Of course, others will say such a result would prove once and for all the invalidity of blind testing.
 
I'd agree that for the most part it's just bullshit and nothing more than people getting used to the sound of new components, rather than those components changing with use. That burn in does exist is incontrovertible however, it does, it's a science fact. But it's also true that most bits of kit don't suffer from it.

I have two amps here both 200-250 watts. One is a typical class A/B design and the other a Class A Krell. The A/B amp sounds the same from the second you switch it on, the Krell changes over the first five minutes as it begins to get up to temp.

SO like burn in, warming up certainly does exist, just not in every piece of kit.
 
I'd agree that for the most part it's just bullshit and nothing more than people getting used to the sound of new components, rather than those components changing with use. That burn in does exist is incontrovertible however, it does, it's a science fact. But it's also true that most bits of kit don't suffer from it.

I have two amps here both 200-250 watts. One is a typical class A/B design and the other a Class A Krell. The A/B amp sounds the same from the second you switch it on, the Krell changes over the first five minutes as it begins to get up to temp.

SO like burn in, warming up certainly does exist, just not in every piece of kit.

you need some 'faster' audio cables to allow the krell to catch up si ;)
 
I bought 2 Naim items 2nd hand that decently improved over a few days, a NAC 62 and a CDI. Both bought 2nd hand after a few years gathering dust I suspect, both sounded hard and edgy initially but sounded remarkably better after a few days.

Richard
 
And here we have the essential dichotomy at the heart of audio debates: if I hear something you don't, am I delusional/suffering from expectation bias or are you deaf/ignorant/undiscerning?

The funny thing of course is that it just doesn't matter, unless one of us is trying to sell something.
 
A short period of time for operating temperature to stabilise is not 'burn in' , in my experience the only time you really 'hear' a component is the first time you plug it in, your ears soon become accustomed to the new sound.
I have dacs here some units brand new a couple of well used dem units and they all sound exactly the same,the 'burn in 'myth for electronics has been peddled by dealers and manufacturers for as long as I can remember,
Keith.
Just to add over time electronics will drift away from their original specs as they wear.
 
A short period of time for operating temperature to stabilise is not 'burn in' , in my experience the only time you really 'hear' a component is the first time you plug it in, your ears soon become accustomed to the new sound.
I have dacs here some units brand new a couple of well used dem units and they all sound exactly the same,the 'burn in 'myth for electronics has been peddled by dealers and manufacturers for as long as I can remember,
Keith.

What puzzles me (if burn-in is real/audible and some stuff sounds crap without it) is why manufacturers don't burn-in equipment before distributing it.
 
MDACs after being modded take 72 hours to burn in. In that time harmonic and textural info comes to the fore.
 
You would think they would wouldn't you, and products always ( there will be one poster along shortly to contest) sound better after burn in, never worse!
Fancy selling a product whose sound is constantly changing.
Keith.
 
What puzzles me (if burn-in is real/audible and some stuff sounds crap without it) is why manufacturers don't burn-in equipment before distributing it.

Exactly. Any commercial product will have gone through a test phase which will have settled down any components. After this the rest is marketing BS and a way to add 'mystique' to the product.
 
What puzzles me (if burn-in is real/audible and some stuff sounds crap without it) is why manufacturers don't burn-in equipment before distributing it.

Whether you believe in the audible benefits of burn-in or not (It will depend on the particular piece of kit in my opinion) a longish soak test will be beneficial in terms of early reliability, catching premature component failure, for instance.
The reason it is not done is cost - time to set up, delays to shipping, extra factory space needed and so on.
 
Harmonics and texture yes and about what time do the musicians start really communicating between themselves?
Keith
 
If a manufacturer claims a product is "fine tuned by ear" prior to sale then how can they state that the product won't sound right until it's run in?

Isn't that a contradiction?
 


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