Enfield boy
pfm Member
Innocent until it becomes impossible to hide the truth.
Is the Metropolitan Police institutionally corrupt?
- Thread starter paulfromcamden
- Start date
MVV
pfm Member
I posted this in another thread but it might be better here.
The surprising thing is anyone is surprised! And yes it is first hand experience.
Take the absurd response to the London Fire Brigade report. They are now up to their necks in EDI Training. What a stupid useless response. Just imagine the pub afterwards. People need sacking. Not that many either say a hundred in the next couple of months. It need to be made clear that some kinds of ‘banter’ (let alone sexual assault and rape) means you lose your career and your pension. People need to know what it means to be a police officer.
We don’t need to hear any more apologies and “lessons being learned” we need stuff being done.
The surprising thing is anyone is surprised! And yes it is first hand experience.
Take the absurd response to the London Fire Brigade report. They are now up to their necks in EDI Training. What a stupid useless response. Just imagine the pub afterwards. People need sacking. Not that many either say a hundred in the next couple of months. It need to be made clear that some kinds of ‘banter’ (let alone sexual assault and rape) means you lose your career and your pension. People need to know what it means to be a police officer.
We don’t need to hear any more apologies and “lessons being learned” we need stuff being done.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I heard this morning that some 800 Met police officers are under investigation for allegations of rape or similar serious misconduct.
foxwelljsly
Me too, I ate one sour too.
Quick bit of maths. 800 male officers are being investigated concerning in excess of 1000 individual sexual and domestic abuse claims. There are 34,244 officers in the met. 10,386 are female, meaning there are 23,858 male officers. That means 1 in 30 (actually 29.8) serving male officers have had claims of sexual and domestic abuse made against them. Many of these individuals have multiple claims.
The history of any of these men would preclude them from holding the level of clearance required to do a vast number of other public sector jobs.
The work culture within the police, not just the Met, is profoundly toxic. Racism and sexism are tolerated and accepted and those that challenge this are ostracised and victimised. Every single police officer that witnesses and tolerates this is complicit. A job in which you wield authority and weapons is going to attract precisely the kind of people least suited to do so. One of the main objectives of their recruitment and vetting procedures should be weeding these scumbags out.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Completely agree with all your post (edited just for brevity). I'd say the primary purpose, arguably the only purpose, of the vetting is to prevent these sort of undesirables. The police makes great play of holding itself to higher standards. Time they stood up and made it true.
foxwelljsly
Me too, I ate one sour too.
Absolutely. I'd further add that it should probably not come as much of a surprise that the two nastiest recent cases came from the diplomatic and political security detail. If one were cynical, one might wonder if there is a conscious effort by the met and wider police force to retain a few bastards for the arms of the police (TSG & parliamentary & Diplomatic protection) that are, effectively, private security bovver boys for the ruling class and their private interests.
MVV
pfm Member
If only there was that level of consideration, planning and forethought.
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
When I worked with vulnerable adults, a requirement of the job was a two yearly criminal record check. It’s inconceivable that the likes of Carrick and Couzens could have remained on active duty if an effective vetting procedure was in place. The ones who knew and either condoned or ignored this are every bit as culpable. A rotten, irredeemably corrupt organisation. Disgusting.
calorgas
Generic middle-aged man
This is how it seems from watching a fair bit of footage from the hunt sabs. Aside from the actual illegal hunting of wild animals with dogs, it's astonishing what the hunt and their supporters get up to that the police will not investigate and prosecute. I'd go as far as to suggest that they're actually complicit in some of it.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
Would that process have barred individuals if they had never been convicted of a criminal offence? Seems unlikely you could stop someone doing the job based on an accusation or "everyone knows they're a wrong 'un".
[edit]
I am assuming that the two you named hadn't been convicted.
foxwelljsly
Me too, I ate one sour too.
Totally. They're incomparable scenarios. In the two recent high profile cases of Met Police Officers murdering and raping, their offending, and any subsequent intimidation of victims and witnesses, was predicated on the authority conferred on them by their status as police officers. I'm not sure a teacher of children with special needs would be able to command similar fear based solely upon their occupation and status.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
I agree that there has been a failure of process and too much apparent lenience in the disciplinary process; standards and disciplinary action should be high for those charged with protecting the public and uphlding UK law.
My point was more about whether one can vet someone out just because of an allegation or opinion. I suggest not - the police union would be all over that unfair dismissal case like a tramp on chips. Apologies if I hadn't been too clear.
Dogberry
pfm Member
"Rowley was asked if he could guarantee that a woman visiting a police station to report a sexual offence would not meet a police officer whose past behaviour was now under review, or who was tolerating similar behaviour in their department.
“I can’t, I’m not going to make a promise that I can’t stick to,” he said. “I’m going to put in place ruthless systems to squeeze out those who shouldn’t be with us."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/17/met-police-chief-officers-removed-david-carrick
“I can’t, I’m not going to make a promise that I can’t stick to,” he said. “I’m going to put in place ruthless systems to squeeze out those who shouldn’t be with us."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/17/met-police-chief-officers-removed-david-carrick
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
Not to the best of my knowledge. But it seems there had been enough red flags to have suspended both from duty pending investigation long before their behaviour was brought to the attention of the wider public.
Furthermore, I don’t know about the police force, but professions such as teaching, nursing, medicine etc have a code of conduct that employees are expected to uphold at all times. Even though certain behaviours might not be illegal, they would certainly constitute gross misconduct in relation to professional standards, and thus highly likely to result in dismissal.
We really need to dismantle the police as we know it, doubt there is the political will for this though.
Vetting is one thing but allowing a known sex offender to serve for 18 years is unforgivable. Every single person in the chain of command who was complicit in this should be sacked & their pension revoked.
Vetting is one thing but allowing a known sex offender to serve for 18 years is unforgivable. Every single person in the chain of command who was complicit in this should be sacked & their pension revoked.
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
It occurred to me that the only way to disrupt the institution's ingrained, and effectively 'hereditary' racism, misogyny and broadly right wing culture, is to disrupt the organisation itself. Govts, especially recent Tory Govts, have not been above taking on large organisations..albeit opposing organisations, especially Trade Unions and whole industries. It can be done, but as you say it requires the political will, and it's clear that the Tories only will is to leave office having trousered as much loot as possible, which in turn requires a compliant, not to say corrupt Met.
Easy to say and probably very difficult to do, but I'd employ the equivalent of straining a tin of contaminated paint through a fine mesh into a clean container. Create a new Police Force with new leadership. Run it in parallel with the existing and staff it with both new recruits and applicants from the existing force via very stringent EXTERNAL vetting, finally closing down the old force.